ClickClickD'oh
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Conversely, internet lore also tells me that feeding 5.56 through a .223 gun will cause an earth shattering Kaboom. For which, evidence I have never seen.
Has anyone ever seen a .223 gun let go from shooting 5.56?
Bolt-action .223 rifles - can they all shoot 5.56 and or steel-cased ammunition?
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Conversely, internet lore also tells me that feeding 5.56 through a .223 gun will cause an earth shattering Kaboom. For which, evidence I have never seen.
Has anyone ever seen a .223 gun let go from shooting 5.56?
someguy2800
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I'm guessing the first time a 5.56 was ever shot from a commercial .223 was about 15 minutes after the first 5.56 round was sold to the public.
That said being that this is for your daughter I would err on the side of caution. I would try it myself, but I wouldn't let my little girl do it. Just not worth it to me.
That said being that this is for your daughter I would err on the side of caution. I would try it myself, but I wouldn't let my little girl do it. Just not worth it to me.
CoalTrain49
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I have a .223 bolt gun. Nothing I've read says it can shoot steel or 5.56. Why go there? I suppose the same people who would shoot 5.56 in a .223 would also shoot .308 in a 7.62x51. Life's too short to live without your eyes and fingers.
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Llama Bob
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This has come up lots of times on various forums, and no one has ever been able to produce a kaboom that was solely due to loading factory 5.56 in a .223 chamber.
R.W.Dale
Member
Most all tests I've seen put a roughly 5000psi pressure spike on top of the 223 maximum pressure rating from 5.56 being fired in a shorter leade 223 chamber.
Now ask yourself what is 204 ruger rated for? If it's a full sized bolt action ponder 270 Winchester pressure.
No modern bolt action is going to care and that case head has no way of knowing it's supposed to let go with a 5.56 headstamp and be happy as a clam with 204 stamped on it.
Now ask yourself what is 204 ruger rated for? If it's a full sized bolt action ponder 270 Winchester pressure.
No modern bolt action is going to care and that case head has no way of knowing it's supposed to let go with a 5.56 headstamp and be happy as a clam with 204 stamped on it.
R.W.Dale
Member
308 and 7.62x51 are loaded to the same pressure nominally. That's a different old wives tale.
Burn rate concerns aside if you have a rifle that's unsafe with 308 it's not safe with x51 either
Thanks for all the replies. It looks like the CZ is the safest option for the 12 year-old girl, but I definitely am not one of those folks hung up on the the recommendations of the manufacturer. If it were just me, I would shoot .408 CheyTac through the .223 happily, but buying the CZ seems to absolve me of having to worry about it for the little one.
GunnyUSMC
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You know the old saying, Ask a question and get 20 answers. Just remember that some of those answers will be wrong.
The 223 and 5.56 chambers are the same, but the freebore and throat are different. The 5.56 has a longer freebore and throat which allows it to handle higher pressure without the pressure spike you would get in the 223.
You can have any 223 chamber reamed to 5.56.
I know that there are those that have trouble understanding words so, I have provided a pic for them .
The 223 and 5.56 chambers are the same, but the freebore and throat are different. The 5.56 has a longer freebore and throat which allows it to handle higher pressure without the pressure spike you would get in the 223.
You can have any 223 chamber reamed to 5.56.
I know that there are those that have trouble understanding words so, I have provided a pic for them .
Another reason for me to not buy a Ruger.
I get that....I mean we are talking about your kiddo here....and who out there has not at least had the thought....DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO....when it comes to their kid....I know I am guilty. I can't tell you how many bad habits I found myself doing first time my boy (about 17 at the time) came out for some chain saw 101. I would be doing something and go...ahhhh....f*$# don't do that.
One other thing I will say that another poster put up, that steel cased stuff (at least the stuff I have) is really nothing more then a noise maker. My 527 will shoot it fine but it is junk for putting holes where you want them. Your kiddo might get frustrated if you have her run that in the gun.....try it yourself first and get something the gun likes (if you don't reload, like the commies at ruger say not to) and after it hits well then let your girl have at it. There are also tons of "powder puff" loads out there for the 223, reduced loads for kids....in a bolt gun you have many more options open to you...you don't have to worry about the plastic fantastic running on a more recoil frendly load.
holmegaard
Member
Own both a 527 & a Ruger American Ranch. Both have been trouble free & plenty accurate, & both manufacturers explicitly state it's ok to use 5.56 or .223 ammunition. CZ is the nicer of the two imo, & is offered in a youth version (the shorter Ruger version is apparently discontinued). Will admit to being a CZ fan boy... but I really do think she'll be happy with one.
Seems like every manual I've seen lately has some sort of warning against non-commercial ammunition. From the CZ 527 manual:
Ammunition
Use only factory-manufactured standard ammunition ... The use of other cartridges could damage the firearm or cause
malfunctions or injury to the shooter.
CoalTrain49
Member
Do you shoot commercial 308 in a military spec 7.62x51 chamber? If you do have you ever checked the headspace with 308 gauges? I didn't say anything about load pressures. You must be thinking about somebody else.
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R.W.Dale
Member
The ammunition is loaded to basically the same headspace
Yes the x51 chamber is more generous
The rifles are different but not the ammo so much. Yes the 51 TYPICALLY has thicker brass but if that's your margin of safety for a rifle not blowing up (Spanish small ring comes to mind) then it's patently unsafe with NATO loads as well.
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anothernewb
Member
so, along with the back and forth with pressures. How about if someone had a .223 unit, and purchased a chamber reamer, say for a wylde chamber, or even simply a 5.56 reamer. Should take care of that argument once and for all?
CoalTrain49
Member
You may be thinking about rimmed cartridges. For bottlenecked rimless cartridges like the 308, headspace is the distance from a point on the chambers shoulder to the bolt face. It has nothing to do with how the ammo is loaded or the case dimensions.
Again, I'm not talking about cases or loads, I'm talking about chambers. A 308 chamber is not the same as a 7.62x51 chamber. If you insist that they are the same and safe to mix the two cartridges then go ahead, no skin off of my posterior. But please check your rifle's headspace before you do.
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Jim Watson
Member
Ned Christiansen dba Michiguns sells a conversion reamer, It will enlarge a .223 neck and throat to 5.56 without affecting chamber headspace or radial body clearance. Only problem is, it costs $240.
In my OPINION:
I would not mind shooting First World 5.56 in a good stout bolt action .223 except for my reluctance to spend barrel life on marginally accurate ammo.
I would not shoot Lower Slobbovian Surplus in a good sporting rifle. I don't understand needing plinking ammo "in a pinch." In a pinch, I will shoot something else.
In my OPINION:
I would not mind shooting First World 5.56 in a good stout bolt action .223 except for my reluctance to spend barrel life on marginally accurate ammo.
I would not shoot Lower Slobbovian Surplus in a good sporting rifle. I don't understand needing plinking ammo "in a pinch." In a pinch, I will shoot something else.
GunnyUSMC
Member
Yes. The only difference in 223,5.56 and 223 Wylde is the freebore and the throat. A reamer will only cut the freebore and throat.
The 223 Wylde is the garage disposer of the223 world.
Here is the down side. With the titter freebore and throat of the 223 you have better potential for accuracy .
I have been hand loading for my Mod 70 Featherweight in 223 for 26 years now. I like to push light bullets very fast. I can keep 5 shots under an inch at 100 yards with the right loads. This would be harder to do with a 556 but wouldn't be as hard on my brass.
Llama Bob
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The .308 and 7.62x51 cartridges were and are intended to be the same, burn rate issues & op rod aside. This has been discussed to death. You can substitute one for the other freely in non-burn-rate sensitive guns. Yes, x51 chambers can be larger and may close on a .308 no-go gauge. And this results in stretched and potentially non-reloadable brass in the larger chambers - especially in machine guns. But it stretches .308 and 7.62 brass equally. The brass has no special knowledge of whether it was headstamped .308 or 7.62. And if you look at the shoulder dimensions, there's no more than 1 to 2 thousandths difference in the shoulder (or anywhere else) between the SAAMI .308 diagram and the military 7.62 diagram which can largely be attributed to metric conversion errors.
The fear mongering here is stupid.
The fear mongering here is stupid.
R.W.Dale
Member
Exactly
A cartridge has two important specifications
Cartridge dimensions and chamber.
They are NOT the same.
If 7.62x51 Ammo was actually loaded to the longer headspace of a 51 chamber you couldn't cram it into a shorter 308 chamber
A cartridge has two important specifications
Cartridge dimensions and chamber.
They are NOT the same.
If 7.62x51 Ammo was actually loaded to the longer headspace of a 51 chamber you couldn't cram it into a shorter 308 chamber
Llama Bob
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Assuming this was done by forming the brass to position the shoulder forward (like you were making minimally-resized match rounds for a 7.62 chamber) I agree. It would, depending on the chamber, be larger than a .308 no-go.
The cartridge dimensions however say that would be an "illegal" 7.62, no matter how accurate it might be in practice. You should never get that round from the factory.
wally
Member
I'll stay out of the 5.56 vs .223 arguement but briefly state my bias -- if it ever was a problem, I can't imagine any manufacturer in today's lawsuit happy legal climate selling a gun that was unsafe to shoot with either .223 or 5.56 independent of how the barrel is marked. If I'm wrong, where are the lawsuits and "shooting 5.56 ammo damaged my .223 gun" photos and reports?
But my real point is that I've shot virtually all the steel cased ammo types that are available and all of them say .223 and not 5.56 on the box & head-stamp, so I doubt you'll be finding any steel cased 5.56 NATO unless someone just started making it and selling it to civilians.
But my real point is that I've shot virtually all the steel cased ammo types that are available and all of them say .223 and not 5.56 on the box & head-stamp, so I doubt you'll be finding any steel cased 5.56 NATO unless someone just started making it and selling it to civilians.
GunnyUSMC
Member
Like someone else posted just about all steel case ammo is marked 223. I can't remember seeing any steel case ammo marked 5.56.
You should have no trouble shooting steel case 223 ammo in a bolt gun.
I find it funny that some do not understand the need to plink with a bolt gun. Some only find joy in shooting tiny clusters on paper targets at long distance. I have found that kids get bored just punching holes in paper.
I have three kids, 33, 19 and 13, all started shooting between the ages of 7 and 9. The oldest started shooting at 9 and had more fun shooting cans at 50 yds She still loves to shoot but likes handguns the most. My 19yo loves to shoot those tiny clusters on paper but he likes tactical courses too. The youngest will shoot about anything but just loves to put rounds down range. He likes reactive targets.
Just remember to make sure that your daughter has fun when y'all go shooting.
You should have no trouble shooting steel case 223 ammo in a bolt gun.
I find it funny that some do not understand the need to plink with a bolt gun. Some only find joy in shooting tiny clusters on paper targets at long distance. I have found that kids get bored just punching holes in paper.
I have three kids, 33, 19 and 13, all started shooting between the ages of 7 and 9. The oldest started shooting at 9 and had more fun shooting cans at 50 yds She still loves to shoot but likes handguns the most. My 19yo loves to shoot those tiny clusters on paper but he likes tactical courses too. The youngest will shoot about anything but just loves to put rounds down range. He likes reactive targets.
Just remember to make sure that your daughter has fun when y'all go shooting.
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