Bolt Actions over Semi-Autos for sniping

[Gewehr98]

It's not a new concept. Ask the guys who maintain and shoot these:

Arms Tech 0.300 Winchester Magnum Super Match Interdiction Rifle Development

The Arms Tech Super Match Interdiction rifle was developed as a private venture by Arms Tech. It was to fill a need for a precision rifle as accurate as a bolt-action rifle, able to reach targets beyond the range of standard 7.62x51mm weapons, and providing a quick follow-up shot capability, for tactical situations requiring the engagement of multiple targets.

Description

The Super Match Interdiction rifle is based on an extensively modified FN HERSTAL BAR semi-automatic sporting rifle. Stainless steel barrels are by either Douglas or Schneider, are fully free floated for accuracy and are blackened by a chrome sulphide process. Barrels are cryogenically treated to enhance accuracy and extend service life. The barrels are threaded to accept a sound suppressor. In the absence of a suppressor, a cap is screwed onto the muzzle to prevent damage.
Extraction has been improved for strength and reliability. For cold weather operations, the charging handle has been extended. Locking lug recesses, integral to the barrel in standard rifles, have been replaced by a proprietary carbon steel shank to improve reliability and strength. The bolt is lapped for smooth operation. The magazine release has been changed to one similar to a Kalashnikov type. Stocks are by McMillan (Harris Gun Works) and each action is custom-bedded using a powdered metal-filled epoxy compound.
The rifle incorporates an Arms Tech proprietary telescope mounting system that allows optics to be removed and replaced without loss of zero. The Super Match Rifle is warranted by the manufacturer to shoot with sub-minute of angle accuracy over its effective range.


Specifications

Cartridge: 0.300 Winchester Magnum
Operation: gas, semi-automatic
Locking: rotating bolt
Feed: 3- or 10-round detachable box magazine
Weight: empty, 6.3kg
Length: 1.193m
Barrel: 660mm
Rifling: 6 grooves, rh, 1 turn in 304mm
Sights: optical, to customer specifications
Muzzle velocity: 971m/s
Rate of fire: 3-4rds/min
Effective range: 1,000m


Manufacturer

Arms Tech Limited


5133 North Central, Phoenix, Arizona.


Status

In production.

Service

Unspecified special operations forces.

 

[Beav]

Does either design have a cold shot advantage?

 

[madmike]

Someone seems to have covered upthread the competition issue. My info only came from articles, but ARs are dominating the perry matches, as I understand. If this is not the case, I appreciate more up to date info.

Sniping is a combination of stealth and shooting, intel gathering and reporting. Some considerations:

A sniper isn't firing a great many shots. The "maintenance" issue of a target semi is a nonissue in this case. If it comes to a need to fire more shots faster, that precision becomes a nonissue.

This maintenance issue for precision is largely due to using titanium and other alloy parts to reduce lock time and mechanism weight that are prone to galling. Military weapons do not use these parts. This is a nonissue.

Brass catchers are readily available. The "flinging brass" is a nonissue.

The accuracy of these weapons greatly exceeds the tolerance of the ammunition loading specs. Therefore, any tiny advantage one might get that way is a nonissue. The Barrett M-82, military designation M-107, is a _3_ MOA weapon with the ammunition issued.

The entire firing cycle has completed before the mechanism cycles in the semi. For shooting purposes, this makes the mechanism a nonissue. Semis have faster followup. That's the issue for the military.

When competing at long range, using an issue M16A1, we loaded the weapon singly for consistency. I assume this consistency is what the BR guys are aiming for. They also precision measure their bullets and propellant to a greater degree than anyone else. For military combat applications, this is a nonissue.

The Commander of the US Army Sniper School, who was a former enlisted Ranger who went to West Point and in charge of all Army marksmanship doctrine at the time told me in interview for my books that (paraphrasing), "The M14 is okay, but you're still looking at a 50 year old platform. We're pushing the SR-25 while we have the budget and the procurement opportunity." Feel free to argue with him over the merits of the semis he was acquiring over M24 bolts he had.

Upshot: if your plan is to prepare to support military snipers in case of SHTF, you want an M24 bolt or an AR10 variant semi or both.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Zak Smith]

When competing at long range, using an issue M16A1, we loaded the weapon singly for consistency.

Actually, single loading is done to use high BC bullets which cannot be effectively seated to magazine length, e.g. 80-90gr.

Other problems with that post:

Maintenance is always an issue with every weapon-- at least the ones you want to keep working in the field.

Brass catchers defeat many IADs.

The M82 is grossly inaccurate when compared to other "sniper" rifles. It is an anti-material weapon meant for destroying things like vehicles, which are large.

The current conflict has many uses for the SR25 (not to mention the DMM role). The Army historically has not had many. This would suggest that they'd want to acquire more of them.

 

[madmike]

deleted redundant

 

[madmike]

Actually, single loading is done to use high BC bullets which cannot be effectively seated to magazine length, e.g. 80-90gr.

No, I was shooting combat match. Milspec ammo only. But loading singly through the magazine means no balance or mass shift to the weapon between shots, as happens if you start with all 20 in the mag.

Other problems with that post:

Maintenance is always an issue with every weapon-- at least the ones you want to keep working in the field.

And I covered that complaint in my last post.

Brass catchers defeat many IADs.

They seem to be working for what they are being used for.

The M82 is grossly inaccurate when compared to other "sniper" rifles. It is an anti-material weapon meant for destroying things like vehicles, which are large.

Yes, which is its mission. There seems to be a misconception that military snipers are looking to shoot out eyeballs at 1000 yards. Not usually.

The current conflict has many uses for the SR25 (not to mention the DMM role). The Army historically has not had many. This would suggest that they'd want to acquire more of them.

Yes, and for most military applications, the semi can do what the bolt can, and not vice versa. And considering previous sniper weapons have included both Garand and M14 variants in semi, I'd say they've historically had a few.

I remember back when there were "reliability" arguments about why revolvers would never be replaced by semis for police use...funny how that worked out, eh?

The Rem 700 is a fine rifle. It will be in use for a long time. But it's no longer the be all and end all, and is being and will be replaced by a semi.

 

[ocabj]

Someone seems to have covered upthread the competition issue. My info only came from articles, but ARs are dominating the perry matches, as I understand. If this is not the case, I appreciate more up to date info.

Yes, ARs dominate the service rifle class at the Camp Perry matches. Service rifle meaning any AR, M14, or M1 variant. There are no bolt guns in this class. And the reason why the AR dominates in service rifle is because the gun is simply easier to shoot in service rifle competition over the M14 and M1 Garand and the AR platform is cheaper to accurize than the M14 or M1. And note that only the AR in .223 is legal in the service rifle class, no .308 AR variants.

 

[Zak Smith]

Yes, and for most military applications, the semi can do what the bolt can, and not vice versa.

Many countries issue sniper rifles in 338LM. You cannot do that in a compact package in a semi. We've covered other issues in this thread. You just continue to ignore them.

The Rem 700 is a fine rifle. It will be in use for a long time. But it's no longer the be all and end all, and is being and will be replaced by a semi.

The Rem 700 is perhaps not "the" bolt action sniper rifle to compare to. And a SR25 is not going to reach much past 1000 yards effectively (if that).

 

[Jeff White]

madmike,
What's your personal experience as a military sniper? What class did you graduate from? Was it before the DA Sniper School opened in around 1989? If so then it had to have been one of the few unit schools thatwere running.

I have to ask you this because you don't know much about the subject. Maintenance is an issue for a sniper. Why do you think the M21 was withdrawn from service? It was because it required too much maintenance to maintain the required accuracy.

Zak is right, procurement of the M24 is not stopping. The Knights SR25 variant is being procured because we are doing non-traditional sniper missions in the GWOT. It's another tool in the tool box.

Jeff
47th Infantry Division Sniper School Class 88-1

 

[madmike]

I was 47th ID and not a sniper, just a match shooter.

I did interview the commander and cadre of the school in 2003 for my current writing projects. Issues with the M14 platform were mentioned.

I didn't say the M24 was being withdrawn. I do, however, believe it is in the early stages of being replaced.

The commander expressed a preference for a semi, because it offered greater flexibility of mission. When I asked about accuracy and maintenance with the semi, he said they were non-issues. He explained why at length. I didn't have a tape recorder, so I scratched a few notes. But apparently, the SR25 is more than sturdy enough for the role, and exceeds the accuracy requirements.

The Barrett does not, but it's what they have available for that mission. Better ammo will change that. But barrel life is at 1500 rounds.

This is also the commander who changed the course from audit only to pass/fail.

I suppose the question here should be what role the buyer is planning for himself and his rifle.

 

[Jeff White]

Mike,
What unit were you in? I was with C-3-130 IN at the time. When was Sniper School ever audit only? All of the unit schools that pre-dated the DA school at Benning were pass/fail. As far as I know Benning always was too.

Jeff

 

[USSR]

Mike,

I suggest you test your hypothesis regarding the superiority of autoloaders vs. bolt guns by attending a local F class competition. In this type of competition you shoot from a prone position using either a bipod or rest for support, and shoot at a target 1,000 yards away. The rules are fairly loose, so you will be able to use the autoloader of your choice. Reading a bunch of articles is no substitute for getting down in the dirt and finding out for yourself.

Don

 

[madmike]

Mike,
What unit were you in? I was with C-3-130 IN at the time. When was Sniper School ever audit only? All of the unit schools that pre-dated the DA school at Benning were pass/fail. As far as I know Benning always was too.

Jeff

B Co. 747th FSB, later 634 FSB, later 234 FSB, later 434 FSB. From my list of Things Not To Do In The US Military:

88: Even if we do change from 747th MtB to 747th FSB to 234th FSB to 634th FSB to 434th FSB within a year's time, I am not allowed to answer the phone, "Unit of the Month Club, Specialist Williamson speaking, how may I help you?"

I was officially a 52C, supporting radar and commo. As we supported infantry, I cleaned a lot of M60s, dug a lot of fighting positions, rebuilt a lot of engines, drove a lot of tracks and issued a lot of Class 9. I competed three times in State Combat Rifle Match and came away 29th in the state at my best.

I competed once for the Air Guard and then...how do I put this politely? The Army Guard got tired of pilots, skycops and engineers kicking their butts and made it Army Guard only. I'm transitioning back to Army Guard for OCS and plan to compete some more.

Not sure when the school changed as far as audit, but I'd gather that was a Clinton Era thing. It ended about 3 years ago.

As to USSR: How about you try dragging your rifle into a combat match in the rain and high wind, using issue ammo? I used a 1967 issue H&R contract M16 upgraded to A1 with as-issued ammo. Events included 10 round speed drills off hand at 100 yards (magazines of 3, 3, and 4 rounds, ten seconds to shoot and make two changes. I scored a 4, 4-5s and 5-Xs on standard silhouettes) and various positions out to 400 yards prone timed (20/20, with (IIRC) 3 Xs, 5-5s, 8-4s and 4-3s).

This is using your BONE STOCK issue weapon and ammo with or without attached grenade launcher. It is preceded by a 2 mile run in gear, and range changes are accomplished at a run.

The range in use when I was at the Sniper School (Oleg has the photos, we're working on an article) was 800 meters, but required infiltrating to a closer, undefined range to take the shot. One student made it to 150 m and was unobserved. Most were shooting from the 300m range or thereabouts. 1000m was not even a consideration.

There is nothing wrong with a bolt gun. The guy who writes the US Army doctrine for this, who knows far more than I do and likely more than anyone here, says he wants more semis. Argue the point with him. Would you like the mailing address?

It is invalid to argue, "Well, we're doing a different mission now." We've done the DMR mission before, are now and will again. This is seen as where the field is heading. So you gear accordingly. One may as well argue in favor of a Krag with magazine cutoff and volley fire for infantry use and note that, "It's only the last four wars that rapid fire weapons have been relevant."

So again, it depends on what type of "sniping" you plan to prepare for which weapon you select. The US currently is issuing a semi-auto .50 to Army, Navy and Air Force personnel doing anti-materiel, designation and long range missions, semi-auto .308s to Designated Marksmen and Snipers, and some bolt .308s to Designated Marksmen and Snipers. Bolt guns ARE available. The US is leaning more toward semis.

 

[NineHotel]

A friend of mine trained Army snipers in Vietnam in the 60's. The M21 SWS was a quite effective system out to 700 yards per him. The ranging scopes in use at the time (ART I and II) greatly aided the average scout/sniper team on hits. That said, the bolt shooters picked up another 200 yards of effective range, but the sniper had to be top notch in order to take advantage of the rifle's additional accuracy over the M21. A scout/sniper team equipped with both an M21 and bolt rifle could wreak real havoc in a target rich environment out to 600 yards with a good escape path and good cover.

 

[js2013]

Modern bolt guns have much faster lock times than semis. When accuracy is the utmost importance the faster the lock time the better. Long range shooting is dominated by bolt guns.