Bore sight waaay off on new savage .300 win mag

[carnaby]

I just shot my new savage .300 win mag for the first time, and the bore sighter was waaaay off. I wasn't even hitting the paper. I bought the rifle at GI Joes (Savage with accu trigger) and they bore sighted it for me. After three shots of no paper, the guy at the Kenmore range bore sighted it too, and he said it should be on dead center.

I started shooting at each of the four corners of the target, and finally found that it was shooting about 14" low and 8" right. What is the deal with this? Is there something wrong with the rifle? Scope? Is bore sighting not that great in general? Once I got the scope dialed in, I was shooting 3" - 5" groups at 100 yards. I know that's not great, but I'm a noob and my shoulder was getting pretty sore after that 30 round session.

I was pretty good about running an oiled brush through the barrel every three rounds or so too, followed by patches till they came out clean. I was letting the barrel cool down between every couple of shots also.

That .300 win mag with the light stock is a killer, any recommendations for a good recoil pad? I was using a sandbag by the end of things, but then the reach to the trigger was cumbersome. Do the fancy recoil pads for the buttstock work very well, or do I want something that I strap to my shoulder? This is mostly a concern for sighting in and trigger practice. For hunting, I don't care much and I can take a few tough shots to the shoulder without flinching. I guess recoil tolerance builds up with more shooting, no?

One last thing, the barrel isn't perfectly smooth along its length. About a third of the way from the end of the stock to the end of the barrel, there's a funny spot that feels like a small bulge, wrinkle or warp or something, just barely noticeable. I suppose the barrel is either drawn or forged, and I guess the outside finish doesn't matter that much in terms of function, it's the inside finish that is important, provided the barrel is sound. Anyone have an opinion different than that?

Thanks

 

[dakotasin]

ok...

bore sighting is generally useless. in most cases it will get you on paper, but that is all it is meant to do. you still have to dial in the zero after bore sighting. nothing wrong w/ rifle, scope, mounts.

cleaning that frequently probably contributed more to your large-x-huge groups than any other single factor. also, that frequent of cleaning w/o proper gear (bore guide, 1-piece rod) will do more harm to your gun than not cleaning it at all.

for a recoil pad for the 300 win mag, a sims limbsaver is good, and a pachymar decelerator is als a good choice.

recoil tolerance builds up just fine w/ repeated, short range sessions. you have to know when to call it a day. as soon as you start dreading touching off the rifle, or when you have to really, really concentrate on the target, or when your form starts getting sloppy, its time to gather brass and pack it in, or switch guns.

your barrel is fine, most likely.

work on your shooting and technique. clean the gun when it needs it. start w/ a clean barrel and start shooting groups. when the groups start opening up again, you will have reached a point where you should probably start cleaning (some guns this is over 100 shots, some need to be cleaned every dozen or so). when you clean, use quality gear, and don't neglect copper removal.

you'll be fine. give yourself time, and you'll start shrinking groups.

oh, yeah, most guns will place the first group out of a clean barrel differently than they will subsequent groups - and are generally less accurate. this is the reason for fouling shots, or why most hunters hunt w/ a gun that has at least a few shots down the pipe since it was last cleaned.

 

[carnaby]

hmmm, I read somewhere that you were supposed to clean the bore after every few shots to "break it in." I'm past the break in point now, so I'll take your advice about cleaning when it needs it.

Bore snake no good? I was just using a plain old bore cable with a brush on the end. You're supposed ot have some sort of a bore guide and a one piece rod? Yargh. This isn't much like pistol cleaning. Where do you get that sort of stuff and how much does it cost? And do you run the brush both ways, or put the rod in up to the action and then screw the brush on and drag it out?

Everyone has different advice on cleaning, how are you supposed to know the best way to go about it? Or at least a good way to keep your gun in good condition without mucking it up?

 

[carnaby]

also, thanks for the reply dakotasin, I figured that was probably what boresighting was for, too bad it's not better than that.

 

[steveno]

It also helps to make your first shots at 25 yards. set the scope so it shoots a couple of inches low at 25 yards and windage dead on. that should get you a little high at 100 yards and work from there

 

[db_tanker]

If your serious about doing some serious shooting, then definately go get a bore-guide and a Dewey cleaning rod.

And you didn't mention what kinds of ammo you were shooting...handloads, factory? If you plan on running handloads, then you can always load up reduced power loads for that rifle.

Have fun!
D

 

[Infidel]

re: break-in
The "elaborate" method of breaking in a barrel is to shoot 1 shot and clean (mainly remove any and all copper) for ten shots, then shoot 2 and clean for ten shots, then 3, 3, and 4, followed by two 5-shot strings and one 10-shot (or four 5-shot).

The "simple" method is to shoot it. Clean it when you feel like it.

Both methods have their followers, as do in-between methods. Choose what melts your butter. It's your rifle.

re: cleaning
The best method is to use a good one-piece rod and a proper bore guide. Push the brushes and patches through from chamber to muzzle, remove the patch or brush, retract the rod, put the brush back on or another patch, and repeat, always going from chamber to muzzle.

Pull-through devices like Boresnakes and Patchworms are great, I think, especially at the range or for a quick pretty good cleaning. But I still use the rod method for a really good cleaning. However, I would bet that regular cleaning with a pull-through device will keep a hunting rifle in shape for its entire career (which might be several generations of owners). Pull things through from the chamber to the muzzle.

re: Sighting in
Boresighting by whatever method is just to get the first shots on the paper, as Dakotasin already said. And, as Steveno said, it's usually easier to make those first shots at 25 yards. Zeroing first quickly at 25 yards will get you close at 100. Depending on what you're shooting, you might want to be a little low at 25 yards, or a little high. One way to get close is to use a ballistics program (there are several Web-based ones around), run the trajectory for your cartridge with a zero at 100 and look at the number for 25.

 

[carnaby]

how do you push a patch or brush on a guide rod from the chamger to the muzzle? Oh, duh, you pull out the bolt and start from way back, is that right?

 

[Infidel]

Right. I put the rifle in a cradle, remove the bolt, put the bore guide in, and then push the rod through. Walking around to the muzzle to remove the patch or brush doesn't go over too well on a hot range, but I can almost always reach that far from behind the bench.

 

[carnaby]

I was shooting all sorts of stuff. Remington accu tip 180gn, Federal Fusion 180gn, winchester power something or other in 150gn and 180gn, and some Federal Power Shok 150gn. Just tried out a whole bunch of different stuff.

I didn't keep track of how I shot each load on account of by the time I had the scope sighted in my shoulder was shot and I wasn't shooting worth crap.

Next time...

 

[nipprdog]

That .300 win mag with the light stock is a killer, any recommendations for a good recoil pad? I was using a sandbag by the end of things, but then the reach to the trigger was cumbersome. Do the fancy recoil pads for the buttstock work very well, or do I want something that I strap to my shoulder? This is mostly a concern for sighting in and trigger practice. For hunting, I don't care much and I can take a few tough shots to the shoulder without flinching. I guess recoil tolerance builds up with more shooting, no?

you could spend $30 bucks and mess with installing a nice aftermarket pad, or you could spend $100 and get a stiffer stock with a nice recoil pad already installed, like the Duramaxx.

 

[Car Knocker]

I was pretty good about running an oiled brush through the barrel every three rounds or so too, followed by patches till they came out clean.

You were using gun oil to clean the bore every few shots?

 

[Wllm. Legrand]

ok...

bore sighting is generally useless. in most cases it will get you on paper, but that is all it is meant to do.

Amen, brother....ESPECIALLY at 100 yards...First you should shoot at an object on the dirt backstop, have someone call the shot for you. Adjust significantly, not little by little. THEN go to the target. Otherwise you waste a lot of ammunition.

And better check screws, scope and stock, as you go along. Things have a way of working loose and, again, you waste a lot of ammunition.

 

[carnaby]

You were using gun oil to clean the bore every few shots?

Er, yeah, aren't you supposed to? I would clean all the oil out with patches after that. It was hoppes something or other. I figured it'd be ok, kinda like my "clean, lube and protect" oil that I also use. No?

 

[Meplat]

I just shot my new savage .300 win mag for the first time, and the bore sighter was waaaay off. I wasn't even hitting the paper. I bought the rifle at GI Joes (Savage with accu trigger) and they bore sighted it for me. After three shots of no paper, the guy at the Kenmore range bore sighted it too, and he said it should be on dead center.:/Quote]

I've found bore sighting devices to be worse than useless. The only time I would even consider wasting any time with them would be for a pump, semi-auto or some other action that doesn't allow me to drop the bolt or falling block and look down my bore. Once you can sight down your bore, you need a corrugated box with cut outs to support your rifle. Place the box on bench, rifle in cut outs, move the whole thing around til you have a 25 yard target in the center of the bore. Look up, through the scope (holding the rifle VERY still) and make windage and elevation adjustments til the bore and crosshairs both are dead center of target. Replace bolt, go to sandbags, fire one round. Should be close to target if you've used a steady hand. For the next step, it's VERY handy to have a friend available to help. Lay the rifle solidly on the sandbags, take a firing position, and put the crosshairs dead center of target. Have the friend make windage and elevation adustments (all the time keeping the rifle PERFECTLY still) until the crosshairs are over the first bullet hole. Second shot should be dead center of target. Now you can move out to 100 yards, fire another shot, and if any adjustments are needed, they can be made. Should never take more that four shots to sight a scope in with a bolt or falling block rifle once you get the hang of this. Have swapped scopes so many times I can't count using this method.

That .300 win mag with the light stock is a killer, any recommendations for a good recoil pad? I was using a sandbag by the end of things, but then the reach to the trigger was cumbersome. Do the fancy recoil pads for the buttstock work very well, or do I want something that I strap to my shoulder? This is mostly a concern for sighting in and trigger practice. For hunting, I don't care much and I can take a few tough shots to the shoulder without flinching.

This isn't a good mindset at all. If you flinch at the range, you WILL flinch in the field. It's trained into your muscle memory. Range time. Only cure for flinching I know of. Fire a round or two of big bore, then several .22 rounds to see what you're doing to your style. When it gets painful, stop. Right then. Soon sessions will get longer, and you'll wonder why it ever bothered you to begin with.

I guess recoil tolerance builds up with more shooting, no?

Yep. As long as you do it properly. Practicing something the wrong way is worse than no practice at all, sometimes.

 

[Meplat]

Er, yeah, aren't you supposed to? I would clean all the oil out with patches after that. It was hoppes something or other. I figured it'd be ok, kinda like my "clean, lube and protect" oil that I also use. No?

You definitely need a good bore cleaner to remove copper fouling, especially in a cartridge like the .300 Mag. Oil is good AFTER you are through shooting for the day, but has no place in a rifle that is to be fired. You want a nice clean dry bore to shoot through, an oiled bore when the gun is taking a gun safe vacation.

Oh, and I ALWAYS clean my bore out with a good solvent when I take it out of the safe. Excessive oil in the barrel can lead to some high chamber pressures. Since I have some wood stocked rifles in my safe, I store all of them muzzle down on foam rubber so that the oil doesn't drain back down the bore and into action and the surrounding wood. Even in a composite stocked rifle, excessive oil can do more harm than good by attracting dirt, gunk, etc. A light coat of quality oil is all you need, and even that needs to be removed if you are hunting/shooting in a very cold environment. Stuff has a tendency to thicken up in the cold, and can impede the firing pin. Of course, when Ol' Betty comes back home, you need to oil her up again.

 

[Car Knocker]

Er, yeah, aren't you supposed to? I would clean all the oil out with patches after that. It was hoppes something or other. I figured it'd be ok, kinda like my "clean, lube and protect" oil that I also use. No?

As Meplat pointed out, oil isn't the best choice to be cleaning a bore with. There are specific solutions, such as Hoppe's #9 or Shooter's Choice Bore Cleaner, that remove powder and lead/copper deposits that result from shooting. There are also more aggressive solvents to attack the metallic deposits. All cleaners should be used according to directions since misuse could damage your firearm.

In addition to possible higher chamber pressures as Meplat noted, oil in a bore can cause the first shot to be a "flyer", a shot that is outside the group. Use oil sparingly as a preservative.

The tone of your posts suggest that you haven't much experience at rifle shooting. If that is so, the .300 Winchester Magnum probably wasn't your best choice of calibers for learning this sport. A cartridge this...vigorous...can easily instill bad habits, such as flinching, in a new rifle shooter. In any case, a more mild-mannered round, such as .223, will allow most people the opportunity to do a lot more shooting before becoming fatigued. The .300 Win Mag wouldn't be high on my list of enjoyable calibers to shoot extensively. I'm just pointing this out so that you are aware of this phenomenon and can guard against it.

Good shooting!

 

[adaman04]

you could spend $30 bucks and mess with installing a nice aftermarket pad, or you could spend $100 and get a stiffer stock with a nice recoil pad already installed, like the Duramaxx.

And again nipprdog posts his gratuitous gun porn. That is the very reason I spend so much time on this forum. Ditto to the Duramaxx stock. If they offer a 2 for 1 deal, I will take the spare off your hands.

As for boresighting, I feel your pain. I have a friend that has a boresighting kit. He gets about as close with it as I do by removing the bolt, looking down the bore, and roughing the crosshairs somewhere in that general area. Though, I have considered a laser system, I really don't feel the need.

 

[carnaby]

The tone of your posts suggest that you haven't much experience at rifle shooting. If that is so, the .300 Winchester Magnum probably wasn't your best choice of calibers for learning this sport. A cartridge this...vigorous...can easily instill bad habits, such as flinching, in a new rifle shooter. In any case, a more mild-mannered round, such as .223, will allow most people the opportunity to do a lot more shooting before becoming fatigued. The .300 Win Mag wouldn't be high on my list of enjoyable calibers to shoot extensively. I'm just pointing this out so that you are aware of this phenomenon and can guard against it.

Well, I started with a .30-30, and that was fine, but the rifle I wanted was primarily for hunting and I wanted something I could use on elk. I had to sell the .30-30 to get this one, so I wanted a fairly versatile caliber. I've got a buddy with a pile of rifles in all sorts of calibers, and I shoot them when we go to the range. I don't have any trouble with a .30-06. I just got a nice limbsaver recoil pad, that oughta help.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I'll be sure to avoid too much oil in the barrel and not oil while at the range. I've got a nylon bore brush and some copper removing solvent to use too. I'll post again after my next range trip and we'll see how I do.

 

[Berek]

I have a Savage .300WSM FXP3 and I love it. It came from the factory with a scope mounted, but as has been previously stated, bore sighting just gets you on target (sorry, on paper). Having a spotter (someone to watch where you hit) is an IMMENSE help. Just make sure they know their right from their left.

If you run a patch through the barrel during a session, don't use oil. Use a light solvent. Gun oil will create a gum in the barrel with that much application.

To reduce the recoil in mine, I added shot to the gaps in the forestock. It's 1.5-2#'s heavier, but the recoil is reduced to the point that my g/f can now handle it without issue.

 

[carnaby]

I cleaned the bore with gunscrubber followed by shooter's choice copper remover. The patches sure came out blue after that. More gunscrubber on a patch followed by dry patches till they came out clean followed lastly by a smidge of hoppes gun oil and another dry patch.

That oughta do it.