BP hazmat legal stuff
- Thread starter damoc
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Malachi Leviticus Blue
Member
The limit Federal limit is 50 lbs if you want to avoid being licensed.
I don't know if Nevada has any other rules.
I don't know if Nevada has any other rules.
BullRunBear
Member
The online sites I've seen like Grafs usually state there's a fifty pound limit per shipment. Individual states may have specifics on how much can be kept at home.
Jeff
Jeff
Loyalist Dave
Member
Yes you have to check local ordinances.
Some include county or incorporated limits (city, town, etc). There is a difference in "on hand" compared to "stored within...". Some jurisdictions place limits on townhomes and apartments compared to single family dwellings, and industrial locations, and some places having it in a shed is different than having it in the single family home.
LD
edwardware
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I would be fascinated to see a citation for this. I have worked in the civil, environmental, and building/fire code industry and in every single case I am aware of, code and storage requirements apply to Construction, and Commercial Storage.
I am not aware of a single State or Federal regulation that speaks to non-commercial storage of any HazMat material. In every case I'm aware of, so long as you may possess the thing, you may store the thing however and in whatever quantity you want.
Some municipalities might have applicable limits, and there might be something applicable specifically to black powder, but everything I've found in this space turns out to be specific to Commercial storage, and didn't apply to non-commercial.
Don't conflate commercial storage requirements (i.e. NFPA's propellant storage requirements as available from SAAMI) with non-commercial requirements.
Also, RTFM your Homeowner's Insurance policy. . . if you never have, I promise you'll be surprised.
WestKentucky
Member
In places with more restrictive legal situations, would there be a difference in loose powder and powder contained within cartridges? I know a lot of folks who shoot CAS matches and load their own, so the question becomes, does the 3 pounds of BP already loaded in cartridges count in the 50 pound limit, and if the guy orders 50 pounds to get him through the next year or so does that put him over the legal limit?
arcticap
Member
It appears that Nevada residents are allowed to own up to 100 pounds of black powder.
And if the town prohibits or limits storing it, then a person is still allowed to store it 1/4 mile or more outside of the town. --->>> https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-476.html#:~:text=(a) The storage by any,500 gallons of kerosene oil.
A simple Google search of the phrase NEVADA BLACK POWDER LIMITATION brings up Nevada state statutes that state in part:
NRS 476.060 Procedure for prohibition of storage of explosive or combustible materials in city or town: Petition; order; publication; penalties
It's interesting that in section 1 of this statute, it says that if 10% of the taxpayers of a town sign anf file a petition, that they can prohibit the storage of explosives within a quarter mile of the town limits, and further down in section 5 it says that it would be a misdemeanor for failing to comply with exceptions as noted
3. This section does not prohibit or prevent:
(a) The storage by any person, firm or corporation within the limit prescribed by the order of any board, of not more than 100 pounds of black and smokeless gunpowder or rifle powder, and not more than 500 gallons of kerosene oil.
(b) The keeping within such limit of shotgun or rifle shells and cartridges and cartridge percussion caps by any business firm or individual.
(c) The storing of powder underground in mines.
damoc, I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice. Please don't sue me!
And if the town prohibits or limits storing it, then a person is still allowed to store it 1/4 mile or more outside of the town. --->>> https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-476.html#:~:text=(a) The storage by any,500 gallons of kerosene oil.
A simple Google search of the phrase NEVADA BLACK POWDER LIMITATION brings up Nevada state statutes that state in part:
NRS 476.060 Procedure for prohibition of storage of explosive or combustible materials in city or town: Petition; order; publication; penalties
It's interesting that in section 1 of this statute, it says that if 10% of the taxpayers of a town sign anf file a petition, that they can prohibit the storage of explosives within a quarter mile of the town limits, and further down in section 5 it says that it would be a misdemeanor for failing to comply with exceptions as noted
3. This section does not prohibit or prevent:
(a) The storage by any person, firm or corporation within the limit prescribed by the order of any board, of not more than 100 pounds of black and smokeless gunpowder or rifle powder, and not more than 500 gallons of kerosene oil.
(b) The keeping within such limit of shotgun or rifle shells and cartridges and cartridge percussion caps by any business firm or individual.
(c) The storing of powder underground in mines.
damoc, I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice. Please don't sue me!
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arcticap
Member
I noticed that there may be a contradiction between Federal and Nevada law regarding black powder possession.
It seems that the inclusion of all other gun powders may be tied into the Nevada 100 pound limit.
Or perhaps Nevada doesn't care that the Federal limit appears to be 50 lbs. which puts the burden on the Fed.'s to enforce it.
Marijuana is a Federally controlled substance that some states also seem to ignore.
Here's the Federal limit of 50 lbs. that's stated on the BATF website: --->>> https://www.atf.gov/explosives/qa/black-powder-subject-regulation-under-federal-explosives-laws#:~:text=However, the law exempts from,or cultural purposes in antique
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Loyalist Dave
Member
Title 18, United States Code, Sec. 1102, Chapter 40. Importation, Manufacture, Distribution and Storage of Explosive Materials
§845. Exceptions; Relief From Disabilities (a) Except in the case of subsection (l), (m), (n), or (o) of section 842 and subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, this chapter shall not apply to: …, (4) small arms ammunition and components thereof; (5) commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in section 921(a)(16) of title 18 of the United States Code, or in antique devices as exempted from the term “destructive device” in section 921(a)(4) of title 18 of the United States Code;
So, as long as you're not storing more than 50 pounds of commercially manufactured black powder for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes, you are not required to adhere to the storage requirements.
Go over 50 lbs. and you MIGHT be in violation at the Federal Level.
Title 27, United States Code Code of Federal Regulations, Part 555—Commerce in Explosives
§555.26 Prohibited shipment, transportation, receipt, possession, or distribution of explosive materials. (a) General. No person, other than a licensee or permittee knowingly may transport, ship, cause to be transported, or receive any explosive materials: Provided, that the provisions of this paragraph (a) do not apply to the lawful purchase by a nonlicensee or nonpermittee of commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed 50 pounds, if the black powder is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16), or in antique devices as exempted from the term “destructive device” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4).
SO..., the minute you buy black powder in person, you are "receiving" it, and the journey home, whether on foot or by some other means is "transport", so as long as it's under 50 pounds to be used in sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes, you're fine, OR if you order it online, then you are "causing it to be transported", and again as long as it's under 50 pounds to be used in sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes, you're fine
§555.41 General. (a) Licenses and permits issued prior to May 24, 2003.
(1) Each person intending to engage in business as an importer or manufacturer of, or a dealer in, explosive materials, including black powder, must, before commencing business, obtain the license required by this subpart for the business to be operated. Each person who intends to acquire for use explosive materials from a licensee in a State other than the State in which he resides, or from a foreign country, or who intends to transport explosive materials in interstate or foreign commerce, must obtain a permit under this subpart; except that it is not necessary to obtain a permit if the user intends to lawfully purchase: (i) Explosive materials from a licensee in a State contiguous to the user's State of residence and the user's State of residence has enacted legislation, currently in force, specifically authorizing a resident of that State to purchase explosive materials in a contiguous State;
or (ii) Commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed 50 pounds, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms or in antique devices.
And this last citation above, shows that it's OK to get the black powder in another state, but AGAIN, as long as it's under 50 pounds to be used in sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes.
PLEASE NOTE all you DIY black powder makers, and/or users of the same, these exemptions do not apply when the black powder is not "commercially manufactured". Just FYI....,
LD
Malachi Leviticus Blue
Member
articap did a pretty good job.
I am not a lawyer, but in simple terms, you (anyone) have to have a license to store explosives.
BP is an explosive.
There is an exception for 50lbs and under for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes.
If you don't meet an exception you need a license and have to follow storage rules.
Malachi Leviticus Blue
Member
The OP asked what the legal limit was.
I'm not sure if the OP or anyone else here plans to abide by that limit, but it likely is good to know what the legal limit is.
arcticap
Member
There was a guy on the MLF who made a lot of his own powder.
And he also happened to be recognized as a "Sovereign Citizen" by virtue of a long court battle with the IRS.
Anyhow, he described how the BATF agents came to visit him with regard to his black powder operations which he routinely performed outside.
Nothing became of it and I don't know what prompted the visit, but it may have resulted ftom ordering BP making supplies.
Or they were targeting him due to his court case.
He owned a ranch in Kansas or Nebraska, which was deeded to his family long ago, and which resulted in his claim of sovereign citizen status.
And believe it or not, after a long court battle he won his case.
But it took many years.
I had never heard anything like it, but it showed how the Federal Gov't. can come down on a person who makes waves and doesn't pay their Federal income taxes by claiming sovereign status.
He may have also been a ML gun builder, so there could have been other reasons for the visit.
Perhaps it was routine...
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Thank you everyone for the replies all great help. My original reason for asking was i wanted to stock up a little more to save on hazmat charges but I also do not want to have a visit from some government entity for any reason whether I ordered too much or I may be storing too much I just don't want the trouble. It seems like from the replies i have plenty of lee way on the safe side I had been keeping it under 8 and Im not even sure why now? I did move from California to Nevada so maybe that's why.
arcticap
Member
The Nevada law just goes to show that if a person makes too much noise with their black powder guns, such as by shooting off a cannon. then folks can get together and stop him from storing powder at his house.
Don't make your neighbors angry.
LOL If I shot off a very big cannon my neighbors probably would not even hear it.The Nevada law just goes to show that if a person makes too much noise with their black powder guns, such as by shooting off a cannon. then folks can get together and stop him from storing powder at his house.
Don't make your neighbors angry.
Loyalist Dave
Member
Indeed,
and it's the "legal limit" for the Federal Level, and states and counties and towns may add to those limits.
Not really sure informing folks of the point at which they may have a legal battle on their hands is deference.
For example, I note that the wording does not mention anything about collective possession...i.e. if Joe Sixpack took 50 cans of BP and placed them inside a heavy duty garbage bag, and then inside a Rubbermayd (misspelling intended) 8 gallon, lidded trashcan, buried to keep the stuff "at a constant temp" (and Joe doesn't want that much BP stored in his dwelling regardless of the Feds)..., THEN Mrs. Sixpack does the same, and the trashcan is located say in a hole 3 feet away from the first, and then Joe's two adult sons do the same as Mrs. Sixpack...., that's 200 lbs of BP stored on Sixpack family land, BUT since they are in separate containers, in locations divided from each other, and each belongs to a different adult individual who has not exceeded the 50 lbs. limit..., and the Sixpack family loves to shoot their black power as a form of recreation... is the household not in compliance ???
LD
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