BP Pistol Safety Ques.

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jonnyc

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At the pistol range yesterday and was waiting for a break to put my targets up. Someone called for a cease-fire and we got ready to cross the line. I then noticed that a guy shooting a repro BP percussion pistol had loaded chambers and his pistol barrel-up in a loose stand. I called a halt and mentioned to the guy that his gun was loaded on the line with us about to go down-range. I know next to nothing about BP guns so I wasn't convinced when he told me it was OK, the hammer was at half-cock. If that pistol fell off the rickety stand I would not consider the half-cock to be much of a safety, and I explained that to him. He got a bit testy and then said there were no caps in place. That sounded a bit safer, so we proceeded.
My question..........was I overly sensitive about a "loaded" BP pistol on the line with us down-range? Is that how to make a BP pistol 'safe', or should he have removed the cylinder or fired the rounds?
 
so long as no one touches the gun....its not going to fire....

seeing as there is no way to unload a BP gun......and shooting the remaining rounds after a ceasfire was called is a NO-NO.......placing the gun on half cock is the only way to render the gun safe.

half cock was considered perfectly safe for hundreds of years......pretty sure its still just as safe as it ever was....

removing the cylinder is probably more dangerous than just leaving the gun alone......if you drop a gun, most likely nothing will happen......if that cylinder rolls off the table, you have a hand grenade potentially.
 
Wait until you see an old timer blow down the barrel (mouth over muzzle) to clear the smoke and ensure the nipple is free of debris!!!

Not advocating the practice but have seen it done many times.

A black powder gun with no cap on it is considered unloaded by the Department of Conservation staffed ranges here. Unless it's struck by lightening or the guy jams a cigarette down the nipple it won't go off.


HB
 
"No caps, it's safe. Not a problem."

This I know, but the question of caps came up after the discussion on the loaded cylinders and half-cock.
 
At my old range a ceasefire would have been suspended until all chambers had been fired.
I just hated to be caught by a ceasefire with an old flintlock I had that the frizzen needed re-hardening. About half the time it wouldn't spark sufficiently and I would end up having to use a Bic to clear the load......
 
If you had read, you would have noticed that was mentioned and dealt with above.

As I said above: "This I know, but the question of caps came up after the discussion on the loaded cylinders and half-cock."
From where I was standing, it was impossible to see if there were caps or not. The question posed really has nothing to do with the presence or lack of caps.
 
With some pistols such as the 1858 Remington and reproductions of it have notches between the cylinder holes. This allows the hammer to rest in the notches thereby immobilizing the cylinder until the hammer is cocked. In this position the hammer cannot hit a cap because it is not lined up with the cap.
 
Half cock isn't much of a safety position, but no caps is safe.

Generally if by some chance my gun is loaded when people are going to set targets, I move away from the bench and go chat with other shooters. With my Remingtons I'd place the hammer in the safety notch, as good as any drop safety.

The other shooters generally do the same, only rule is that you don't hold a loaded gun when someone is walking, on the table it is okay.
 
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Although very slim, there's always a chance of a cook-off or hang-fire with a loaded gun, no caps or not.:evil:
There is NO chance of an unloaded gun going off........
 
A black powder gun with no cap on it is considered unloaded by the Department of Conservation staffed ranges here.
Click to expand...

Also by the State of Ohio as it pertains to hunting and transporting regulations.

I have a Colt Navy and a Remington reproduction, and I can rest the hammer between cylinders. I wouldn't trust either at a half cock over a live cap.

The guys first response should have been that the cylinders were not capped.
 
In order a repro BP pistol to fire from half cock it would have to shear off the notch in the hammer and/or come to full cock "somehow" to strike the cylinder, that may be loaded.

I always put mine at hafe cock on the cylinder that just had been shot, or at rest between chambers
 
Where I shoot, if you want to go down range you check with the other shooters and request to call a cease fire. If anyone has an issue, they'll ask you to wait, and only when everyone gives the thumbs up, do you call "cease firing, the range is cold" and flip the red light switch.

Now granted, we only have 12 stations at the pistol range and 10 bays on the rifle range, with less than half of them usually in action, so it's not a big deal.

Still, I put as many targets up as space on the boards will permit, so I don't have to repeatedly request cease fires.
 
To me, "unloaded" means no load in the gun. Empty. It's been that way on every range I've ever been on...and I've shot muzzle-loaders in ten countries. The key is asking for a cease-fire in a timely manner so a BP shooter knows not to reload after this shot.
 
jonnyc said:
My question..........was I overly sensitive about a "loaded" BP pistol on the line with us down-range? Is that how to make a BP pistol 'safe', or should he have removed the cylinder or fired the rounds?
Click to expand...

Yes, you were overly sensitive. A percussion revolver - or single shot too for that matter - is not 'loaded' until a percussion cap is put on the nipples. Capless and at half cock is just as safe as having empty chambers.
 
jonnyc said:
At the pistol range yesterday and was waiting for a break to put my targets up. Someone called for a cease-fire and we got ready to cross the line. I then noticed that a guy shooting a repro BP percussion pistol had loaded chambers and his pistol barrel-up in a loose stand. I called a halt and mentioned to the guy that his gun was loaded on the line with us about to go down-range. I know next to nothing about BP guns so I wasn't convinced when he told me it was OK, the hammer was at half-cock. If that pistol fell off the rickety stand I would not consider the half-cock to be much of a safety, and I explained that to him. He got a bit testy and then said there were no caps in place. That sounded a bit safer, so we proceeded.
My question..........was I overly sensitive about a "loaded" BP pistol on the line with us down-range? Is that how to make a BP pistol 'safe', or should he have removed the cylinder or fired the rounds?
Click to expand...
That fellow's procedures are the exact ones we follow at the range. The hammer on half-cock tells the RSO that the gun is not ready to fire; it is one of the signals we worked out together.

It really matters not whether or not a gun is loaded or unloaded, nobody is supposed to be in the bays with a cold range. If some nut is going to shoot y'all, he'll have another concealed in his pants or pocket anyways.
 
I don't shoot BP, but am I correct in assuming that a percussion cap is the equivalent of a primer in a modern cartridge?
 
To my thinking the guy with the pistol focused on the wrong thing first off. His first reply SHOULD have been that the cylinder wasn't capped at all. Within the rules of all the black powder organizations I've seen the definition of "loaded" for muzzle loaders is the presence of a cap or flint in the firing position. The hammer position isn't ever mentioned. So that's why I'm thinking that the fellow didn't give the very best answer in the first instance.
 
I shoot Cowboy Action and we have strict loading and unloading rules for all shooters. Shooters wear their pistols holstered all day at the match. They are not loaded until they go to the loading table which has a loading officer. If a shooter comes to the table with a loaded pistol or even an empty cartridge he is penalized. Once loaded he cannot leave the table until called to the firing line by the TO. Once firing is completed they go to an unloading table and once all pistols are declared clear they can be holstered and the shooter is free to go.

Cap and ball shooters are allowed to charge their pistols away from the loading table. When they go to the loading table they cap their cylinders and then cannot move away until called to shoot. After shooting the same unloading procedure applies. Many cap and ball shooters have multiple cylinders already charged to save time and keep them in their carts.

So,I guess in our game, an uncapped pistol is considered safe enough. Of course not as safe as an uncharged pistol, but safe enough.

I belong to a number of clubs and have never seen one with an issue with charged and uncapped BP pistols.

I don't think a shooter should be offended if questioned by another about the status of a pistol on the line before people go down range. Just be aware of local rules.
 
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