Brass Knuckles Legal In Texas?!

[Roamin_Wade]

I’m not certain why but Texas recently legalized brass knuckles. The thing is, I can’t recon why they would do this. If I feel threatened, really threatened, and I hit someone with brass knuckles, they will most assuredly report that they weren’t threatening me. If I was afraid for my life, why wouldn’t I reach for my pistol? It takes longer to put knuckles on my hand than it does to produce a pistol. There just seems to be an element missing that would provide a defense to prosecution. What are your thoughts?

 

[jdh]

Not so much a legalization as a decriminalization.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I’m not certain why but Texas recently legalized brass knuckles. The thing is, I can’t recon why they would do this. If I feel threatened, really threatened, and I hit someone with brass knuckles, they will most assuredly report that they weren’t threatening me. If I was afraid for my life, why wouldn’t I reach for my pistol? It takes longer to put knuckles on my hand than it does to produce a pistol. There just seems to be an element missing that would provide a defense to prosecution. What are your thoughts?

Wait, what? You are complaining because Texas has given you more options for self defense?

You think there is some difference between you feeling threatened by a person and them lying about them threatening you if you use brass knuckles, but not a gun or any other form of self defense that causes them harm? What is it about brass knuckles that will make them lie?

Why would you use brass knuckles instead of a gun? Maybe because you are where you can't carry a gun?

Missing defense to prosecution? What are you talking about?

 

[Roamin_Wade]

Brass knuckles will more than likely not kill (stop) the assailant. You use brass knuckles, and that guy will be testifying in court that he was not threatening your life. You still can’t take knuckles into the Astros game so what sense does it make to carry something less lethal than a pistol? If your life is in jeopardy, why would you want to just break their jaw? I get the whole “we have Liberty” thing but it just sounds like brass knuckles will just land you in prison for aggravated assault.

 

[unclenunzie]

I see no connection between legalizing (or decriminalizing) brass knuckles and limiting it to only the concept of defensive use. People can use them defensively, but just as easily collect them as interesting artifacts, or for any reason that floats their boat. I wouldn't mine owning a trench knife or a decent replica, but would avoid them if they were not legal to own.

I had a friend from Florida who bought some cheap cat-shaped plastic knuckles at a gun show, because she thought they would serve when walking to her car in dark parking lots or similar places. She does not carry a gun, and considered taking them on on a plane trip overseas. I advised her against this for obvious reasons.

But as to making that choice, I have seen it argued that if one were to adopt them as a defensive weapon, you'd have to be wearing them at the time of a threatening encounter. And so the argument goes that you'd be perceived as taking an offensive rather than defensive posture with wearing them, as opposed to wearing a purely defensive holstered pistol. Actual brass knuckles worn by a man might not look wholesome to a jury as say a purple plastic cat shaped key chain thing, worn by a 60+ slightly built woman. Perception.

As to why legalize/decriminalize, maybe for collectors and for the slightly built woman alone in a parking lot at night. I dunno, but that's my guess.

Edit to add: Knuckles probably fall into the same category as a defensive cane or club - lethal force above the shoulders, I seem to recall.

 

[hso]

I’m not certain why but Texas recently legalized brass knuckles.

Really?

Don't want them...Oh wait, you don't understand, there are a huge range of things that get treated as "knuckles". Like "D" guards or double rings or ...

So, it seems you want to surrender to the authorities the power to broadly interpret anything as "knuckles" AND you don't appear to understand that the government taking away your right to defend yourself by limiting the means to defend yourself is an infringement.

Brass knuckles will more than likely not kill

You're going to have provide some real data on that instead of touting the myth that "a 5.56 will rip a man's arm clean off". Knucks do nothing more than concentrate force in a punch and provide some protection for the hand, nothing more. A punch to the face, stomach, or even arm will not "KEEEEL". A punch to the head, with or without protection, may or may not be fatal.
We've been sold a bunch of lies about what knucks, switchblades, "dum dums", AR will do.

 

[Roamin_Wade]

Really?

Don't want them...Oh wait, you don't understand, there are a huge range of things that get treated as "knuckles". Like "D" guards or double rings or ...

So, it seems you want to surrender to the authorities the power to broadly interpret anything as "knuckles" AND you don't appear to understand that the government taking away your right to defend yourself by limiting the means to defend yourself is an infringement.



You're going to have provide some real data on that instead of touting the myth that "a 5.56 will rip a man's arm clean off". Knucks do nothing more than concentrate force in a punch and provide some protection for the hand, nothing more. A punch to the face, stomach, or even arm will not "KEEEEL". A punch to the head, with or without protection, may or may not be fatal.
We've been sold a bunch of lies about what knucks, switchblades, "dum dums", AR will do.

I’m not certain you understand my point. I’m not for govt limitations on methods of defense. I’m saying that it would be a good way to find yourself defending your freedom in court from using them. If 3 guys happen upon you and try to rob you and you turn one of their jaws into mincemeat, it will be 3 people saying they weren’t threatening you as opposed to just you saying that those 3 guys were threatening you.

I also don’t get where you talk about a 5.56 will rip a persons arm off. It’s like we agree but you think we disagree on that.

 

[Roamin_Wade]

Wait, what? You are complaining because Texas has given you more options for self defense?

You think there is some difference between you feeling threatened by a person and them lying about them threatening you if you use brass knuckles, but not a gun or any other form of self defense that causes them harm? What is it about brass knuckles that will make them lie?

Why would you use brass knuckles instead of a gun? Maybe because you are where you can't carry a gun?

Missing defense to prosecution? What are you talking about?

Wait, what? You are complaining because Texas has given you more options for self defense?

You think there is some difference between you feeling threatened by a person and them lying about them threatening you if you use brass knuckles, but not a gun or any other form of self defense that causes them harm? What is it about brass knuckles that will make them lie?

Why would you use brass knuckles instead of a gun? Maybe because you are where you can't carry a gun?

Missing defense to prosecution? What are you talking about?

A defense to prosecution is a legal instrument that keeps you from being charged with a crime. If your life is in danger, why would you use knuckles? If you already have the knuckles on your hand, it could be argued that you had premeditated on the crime that you’d be charged with. You wouldn’t have a plausible defense to prosecute on your side.

 

[hso]

The issue gets complicated by what is treated as "knuckles" in prohibition states.

The obvious brass knuckles are what most people think of.


But this can be legally classified as knuckles as well.


These





And this can.


And in states where possession and/or carry are prohibited, even this can if you happen to grab it as the only thing at hand.




It might complicate defense to prosecution, but people are arrested and charged with knuckles violations simply for having simple things we'd never consider "brass knuckles" and if you do have to defend yourself and use something as innocuous as that sharpener you don't want to have to deal with a "brass knuckles" charge.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

A defense to prosecution is a legal instrument that keeps you from being charged with a crime. If your life is in danger, why would you use knuckles? If you already have the knuckles on your hand, it could be argued that you had premeditated on the crime that you’d be charged with. You wouldn’t have a plausible defense to prosecute on your side.

1. Who said they were already on your hand?
2. Would that not also apply to if you already had a gun in your hand?
3. "It could be argued" is a rabbit hole to hell. Lots of things could be argued and what could be argued does not mean that they will be successfully argued. Years ago, it wasn't uncommon to read it could be argued that carrying a gun would indicate premeditation, a loaded chamber could be argued to indicate premeditation, etc. Heck, this guy thought carrying your gun in a holster could be argued to indicate premeditation to a jury. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ys-premeditation-to-a-jury.60228/#post-736725 Chuck Taylor apparently thought carry a BUG could be argued to indicate naughty things a well. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/weakside-bug.9516/page-2#post-123750 Here is was said that not carrying a gun habitually could be argued as premeditation. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/when-is-it-responsible-to-carry.118789/#post-1447171
4. Use of force and use lethal force laws in Texas do not pertain to weapon type. That is to say, there is no more defense to prosecution in using a gun as there is a knife, brass knuckles, or other implement.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

I’m not certain why but Texas recently legalized brass knuckles. The thing is, I can’t recon why they would do this. If I feel threatened, really threatened, and I hit someone with brass knuckles, they will most assuredly report that they weren’t threatening me. If I was afraid for my life, why wouldn’t I reach for my pistol? It takes longer to put knuckles on my hand than it does to produce a pistol. There just seems to be an element missing that would provide a defense to prosecution. What are your thoughts?

Ummmm. If you are worried about being wrongly accused in court over this, keeping brass knuckles “illegal” (“i’m not sure why... i cant recon why they would do this”) is not the answer to your concern.

if you think brass knuckles may land you in unintended hot water (small chance of that, but anyway...) then you shouldn’t carry them. But it’s wrong to deny that choice to everyone else out of your personal concern for unintended consequences.

 

[skeeterfogger]

Like everything else. Having it and how/intent in using it are 2 different things.
Somewhat like the latest knife laws that were updated that were mostly not applied. They way they were you were not really able to have a fillet knife in your tackle box but no LEO was going to enforce it and it would not come in to play unless you did something wrong with it. Just moving in sight with sword could get you some unwanted attention even though the only use was as a costume event. So it is having it and what is done with it is the kicker.

 

[Roamin_Wade]

About getting hit in the stomach: https://www.history.com/news/what-killed-harry-houdini

Anyway, this thread is ridiculous. Defend yourself with implements that don't make you look like trash.

Ummmm. If you are worried about being wrongly accused in court over this, keeping brass knuckles “illegal” (“i’m not sure why... i cant recon why they would do this”) is not the answer to your concern.

if you think brass knuckles may land you in unintended hot water (small chance of that, but anyway...) then you shouldn’t carry them. But it’s wrong to deny that choice to everyone else out of your personal concern for unintended consequences.

I won’t be carrying them and I’m not saying they should be illegal. I’m saying that the nature of self defense, when one could carry a pistol, is difficult to understand why they’d choose a lesser amount of protection. I don’t carry a knife either. I used to, years ago, but not since I started carrying a handgun. I guess a felon may be able to procure and carry knuckles but I don’t know for sure if it’s legal for a felon.
Think of it this way. Pepper spray will remove an attackers eyes and render them way less dangerous. It is a plausible way to stop an attack. If you liquidate someone’s jaw with knuckles, you would have to have an extremely plausible reason to do that. Pepper spray burns for an hour. Wiring jaws shut for 6 weeks is a whole other matter. The police will search both sides of the story. If it’s you against another person, it’s your word against theirs. If it’s 3 people against you, do you think they will simply admit that they were going to roll you? It will be 3 against 1. Let’s add alcohol into the mix. If you are drinking, you aren’t allowed to carry a firearm in Texas. So you get into a disagreement with another bar patron and you hit him with the knuckles. Do you think the police will simply agree with you because you won the fight? That dog won’t hunt.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

As intimated earlier this is ridiculous. As you’ve stated you won’t be carrying them. So why are you so concerned about others making the seemingly poor decision to do so? I mean, if you are okay with them being legal and all.

I think you are way, way overthinking this.

 

[Roamin_Wade]

As intimated earlier this is ridiculous. As you’ve stated you won’t be carrying them. So why are you so concerned about others making the seemingly poor decision to do so? I mean, if you are okay with them being legal and all.

I think you are way, way overthinking this.

I have been accused of overthinking stuff before. So where should it end? People carrying around swords? Baseball bats? A pipe? Bicycle chains? Chinese Stars, the really good ones?
Less than lethal things that were already legal, like pepper spray and tasers, incapacitate momentarily so you can get away. Knuckles screw up a person, very likely for the rest of their life. I don’t want my jaw wired because a criminal stole me with knuckles that were perfectly legal for him to carry until he used them illegally on me. Gun shots are loud and distinct. How much noise would knuckles make? Nobody would turn around and look because they are silent. That won’t be the case for a gun shot.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Ridiculous. All of the things you mention above are legal to carry around anyway.

There is a constitutional principle found in english common law (and international maritime law) that is also forms an assumptive basis here in the states that affects individual liberty. It is sometimes paraphrased as “everything is legal, until it isn’t” or “everything which is not forbidden is allowed”.

Removing restrictions only supports a person’s individual liberty. Texas is a place that used to have a reputation for that, and it is important that we regain and preserve that reputation as much as possible. If you understand the bonnie blue that is in your avatar you’ll know why.

 

[Roamin_Wade]

Ridiculous. All of the things you mention above are legal to carry around anyway.

There is a constitutional principle found in english common law (and international maritime law) that is also forms an assumptive basis here in the states that affects individual liberty. It is sometimes paraphrased as “everything is legal, until it isn’t” or “everything which is not forbidden is allowed”.

Removing restrictions only supports a person’s individual liberty. Texas is a place that used to have a reputation for that, and it is important that we regain and preserve that reputation as much as possible. If you understand the bonnie blue that is in your avatar you’ll know why.

Oh, I’m surely a bone deep Texan that would readily rally around a flag that bears a single star!
Along those lines that you mentioned, why were they illegal in the first place? I don’t know the answer to that.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Beats me, but I’m betting it comes similar to the same legislative morality that brought us blue laws.

 

[hso]

What are your thoughts?

Looks like we see what members' thoughts are.

 

[hso]

why were they illegal in the first place?

Same as switchblades...movies and manufactured perception exploited by authoritarian politicians fear mongering.

 

[dogtown tom]

I’m not certain why but Texas recently legalized brass knuckles.

No, Texas removed the section of the criminal code that prohibited "brass" knuckles. "Brass" also included plastic kitty kat key chains.
Why? Freedom, thats why.

The thing is, I can’t recon why they would do this.

Because freedom. It's a wonderful concept.

If I feel threatened, really threatened, and I hit someone with brass knuckles, they will most assuredly report that they weren’t threatening me. If I was afraid for my life, why wouldn’t I reach for my pistol? It takes longer to put knuckles on my hand than it does to produce a pistol. There just seems to be an element missing that would provide a defense to prosecution. What are your thoughts?

Are you new to Texas? I ask because if you live in Texas and hold a CHL/LTC you would be aware that there are some places you cannot lawfully carry a firearm.

 

[dogtown tom]

I’m not certain you understand my point. I’m not for govt limitations on methods of defense. I’m saying that it would be a good way to find yourself defending your freedom in court from using them. If 3 guys happen upon you and try to rob you and you turn one of their jaws into mincemeat, it will be 3 people saying they weren’t threatening you as opposed to just you saying that those 3 guys were threatening you.

I also don’t get where you talk about a 5.56 will rip a persons arm off. It’s like we agree but you think we disagree on that.

Uh........that happens is shootings as well.

 

[dogtown tom]

I won’t be carrying them and I’m not saying they should be illegal. I’m saying that the nature of self defense, when one could carry a pistol, is difficult to understand why they’d choose a lesser amount of protection.

Well, why choose a pistol? It's certainly less effective than a rifle or shotgun.

I don’t carry a knife either. I used to, years ago, but not since I started carrying a handgun. I guess a felon may be able to procure and carry knuckles but I don’t know for sure if it’s legal for a felon.

Knives aren't prohibited under 30.06 or 30.07 ..........which is kind of important.

Think of it this way. Pepper spray will remove an attackers eyes and render them way less dangerous.

No kidding?

It is a plausible way to stop an attack. If you liquidate someone’s jaw with knuckles, you would have to have an extremely plausible reason to do that.

Using a tire iron, pitch fork, baseball bat, fence post..........all are deadly weapons when used as a deadly weapon. Being attacked is all the "plausible reason" you would need to use anything to defend yourself in Texas.

Pepper spray burns for an hour. Wiring jaws shut for 6 weeks is a whole other matter. The police will search both sides of the story. If it’s you against another person, it’s your word against theirs. If it’s 3 people against you, do you think they will simply admit that they were going to roll you? It will be 3 against 1. Let’s add alcohol into the mix. If you are drinking, you aren’t allowed to carry a firearm in Texas. So you get into a disagreement with another bar patron and you hit him with the knuckles. Do you think the police will simply agree with you because you won the fight? That dog won’t hunt.

Yet the pistol you seem to think is a better choice will mean the other party is dead....probably dead forever. And the investigation WILL go before a Grand Jury. Much more complicated, costly and risky than using your kitty kat keychain to defend yourself.
You probably shouldn't be carrying a firearm with your understanding of self defense and Texas law.

 

[Fiv3r]

Well even though I don't live in TX, this thread has piqued my interest in owning a good quality set of knuckles. Neat conversation piece, i think.

 

[Roamin_Wade]

Well, why choose a pistol? It's certainly less effective than a rifle or shotgun.



Knives aren't prohibited under 30.06 or 30.07 ..........which is kind of important.





No kidding?




Using a tire iron, pitch fork, baseball bat, fence post..........all are deadly weapons when used as a deadly weapon. Being attacked is all the "plausible reason" you would need to use anything to defend yourself in Texas.



Yet the pistol you seem to think is a better choice will mean the other party is dead....probably dead forever. And the investigation WILL go before a Grand Jury. Much more complicated, costly and risky than using your kitty kat keychain to defend yourself.
You probably shouldn't be carrying a firearm with your understanding of self defense and Texas law.

You know, it shows a low caliber mentality to start throwing insults at me. Why are you so rude? From what I can tell it is you that fails to understand basic defense laws in our state.