Brass Shavings after Bullet Seating

[stodd]

Hello again everyone..

Had a question about brass shavings. After i seat my 148 grain lead PPC #2 Missouri bullet DEWC, I can see a very little bit of brass shavings by the mouth of the case when i'm checking the to see if the bullet seated correctly and to the correct depth.

Is this a problem with the belling of the case of something?

Thanks..
Stodd

 

[Tallinar]

Are you crimping while seating as well? It could be indicative of too heavy of a crimp. If it's only happening on some cases, it could also indicate that your cases are not of uniform length.

The bell could have something to do with it, but I'll wait to see if you're crimping first.

 

[stodd]

Yes I'm using the RCBS die set that seats the bullet and then does the crimp. It looks like it does it on all of the cases. It's only a little bit thou and its hard to see on the case itself, i only see it after i turn my fingers on the month of the case and then see the small brass shavings then.

 

[Tallinar]

It may be too heavy of a crimp. Any chance you can capture a picture of a loaded round and post it?

In my experience, if I don't use a pronounced enough bell, this will lead to lead shaving as the bullet is pushed down. For the brass to be cut, it's usually going to have to do with the stress of the steel die rather than the lead bullet (the WC's you're using are pretty soft, with a BHN of 10).

With this in mind, sounds to me like the crimp is the more likely culprit than the bell.

 

[stodd]

Tallinar,

What do you think i should do? Anything or just not worry about it? I just don't know how much of a big deal this is the brass shavings..

 

[Tallinar]

I found those pics in that old thread you PM'd me about. It's kinda tough to tell by the pictures, but it almost looks like you may be seating slightly too deep. I'd been taught to follow the practice of leaving just a sliver of the crimping groove visible when seating. If you're seating to the point where the top of your crimping groove is completely flush with the mouth of the case, you're probably actually roll crimping into the lead just above the crimp groove. The stress on the brass by being so caught between the die and the lead would cause the shaving.

Your crimp does not appear to be too heavy from what I can tell (it's always so tough in those pictures unless you have a really fine camera). I'd back out the seater just a scoach. Here's a pretty decent picture I found online to kinda shows an ideal seating depth. See how a good sliver of the crimping groove is still visible before crimping.

 

[stodd]

yup i see that in your pic.. i'll try that and back out the seater just a hair.. do you its a big problem to see brass shavings alittle?

thanks

 

[Tallinar]

Well, over time and multiple loadings, it can be a problem in that it may influence case life, since you're in essence removing a thousandth of an inch of brass or so each loading if you don't correct the issue. I wouldn't be too worried about it at all though. Chances are that your cases will die off from other natural causes before the shaving ever becomes a concern. It wouldn't hurt to trim them to a uniform length at some point though, if you plan to get a lot of firings out of them.

Remember, at least you said they are shaving consistently. In the end, I think the most important thing if you're loading for precision shooting is that all the cases in your batch are consistent.

I have 200 or so pieces of .45 Colt brass that I use exclusively for my cowboy loads. These pieces of brass are some of the most diverse, random pieces you can imagine. They are a mix of maybe 4 or 5 different lots accumilated over time, as well as the picked up brass that belonged to other shooters that accidentally made it into my pile. I have probably as much as .005 to .006" variation between all of them, which means it's virtually impossible to get a consistent seating depth of crimp on them -- unless I actually took the time to sort them and trim them. I basically just set my seater die to a healthy medium and have at it. Some of them seat high with a light crimp; some seat too low with a heavy crimp; some seat perfect.

But I don't care. They are for pipsqueek cowboy loads, where the hardest shot is maybe an 8 inch diameter steel plate at 30 yards max from a rifle? I'm not too concerned as long as they safely chamber and go boom every time. "Close counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and cowboy handloading."

I have other lots of good brass set aside for my "accurizing" endeavors. All just depends on your application.

Have fun shooting em. =-]

 

[Lorenzo Rojo]

One other thing you might want to look at is how much you are expanding the case mouth before seating. On pistol loads with lead bullets the case mouth has to be expanded just a little. The Lee sets have a expanding die that is through drilled to allow the powder to go in at the same stroke of the press. That is why I like Lee pistol dies. Take a look at you expansion as well.

 

[pcwirepro]

Stodd'

This isn't with new brass is it? I had similar problems with new Remington brass. After an initial deburring it hasn't happened again.

 

[Walkalong]

New brass will often do that, as pcwirepro posted. I like to trim, deburr and chamfer all revolver brass.

A rough expander plug can shave brass, as can a cimping die with a sharp roll crimp ledge. A good deburr & chamfer will go a long way to stopping it.

 

[stodd]

This brass is once fired.. I bought some PMC ammo and fired it and now i'm trying to reload it for the first time.

I went through all the steps in the reloading manual and one of the steps was to debur the inside and outside of the case mouth. and now when i'm seating the bullet and doing the crimp all in 1 step (RCBS die set) that is when i get the very small amount of brass shavings.. Is this a problem and what do you thing i can do to fix it?

 

[stodd]

Walkalong,

I think your right it maybe the roll crimp ledge on the die. Because when i just seat the bullet without crimping it there seems to be no brass shavings, but when i start to put a crimp on the case that is when i get the brass shavings.

First question, how can i fix a sharp roll crimp ledge on the die? Second, would you worry about this issue of brass shavings or is it really not a problem?

I've did the deburr on the inside and outside of the case after i did the resizing/de-priming step with teh first RCBS die (as per the lymans manual), Then i did the expander die step. Is that correct?

Thanks man...

WTB... My first 15 rounds that i loaded worked pretty good today at the range. I loaded 5 rounds at 2.7 grains bullseye, 5 at 2.9 and 5 at 3.0.. I think the 2.7 and 2.9 ones shoot the best, so this batch i've loaded up 50 rounds at 2.8 grains of bullseye..I will go to the range again tomorrow morning to try them out )

 

[Mal H]

Any particular caliber you're using?

 

[stodd]

38 special

 

[rcmodel]

I answered the OP's PM message to me this morning thusly:
Didn't know there was also a thread on it at the time.

Several things could be going on.

1. Too much case mouth bell is causing the appearance of shaved brass because the bell is too big to start in the die without getting dinged entering the die.
You only want the expander to bell the case enough to get the bullet started without shaving lead off the sides.

2. The seating / crimp die is adjusted too far down and over crimping the case.
Back off the die just enough to remove the case mouth bell, + a little more for your wad-cutters. It is a fine line between die crimp adjustment and then resetting the seating stem for the correct seating depth.

3. It's possible you have a defective seating die with a bur in the crimp portion.
Years ago, I would have said that was nearly next to impossible with RCBS dies. Not so sure anymore with todays somewhat lacking quality control.

Take the seating stem out of the die body and use a strong light to look down inside and see what you can see at the crimp ring. If it appears overly rough or burred, you might be able to polish it with emery paper on a slotted dowel rod. Or call RCBS and they will send you a free replacement under warrentee.

rc

 

[stodd]

Thanks RC...

It seems to only shave the brass when i put a crimp on it. I think ill try and back off alittle bit on the crimp then.

I shoot 15 rounds this morning at the range with just enought cirmp to remove the bell on the case and it seemed that all the bullets moved just alittle bit from 1.242 to 1.243 so just .001 movement after the first/second rounds were fired out of the smith and wesson model 637 38 special revolver. I'm sure that any movement of the bullet is not good.