Brewer Vetoes Campus Carry

[Zoogster]

shotgunjoel said:

So you could carry on campus as an 18 year old high school student, but not as a 21 year old college student?

Most states require someone to be 21 to carry or obtain a license to carry a handgun, and this type of legislation typically exempts people with such a license.

This means students fresh from high school would be unable to even obtain a carry permit for a few years, and only a fraction of those that could actually would.
The image encouraged of a campus full of gun toting immature partying teenagers is a myth.

On 2 year campuses like community colleges, people straight from high school would not likely be old enough to carry before they graduated or transferred.
In universities it would primarily be students that had been studying a few years already that could even qualify to get a carry license.


Out of the fraction over 21 and legally able to carry only a small percentage likely would spend the time and effort to obtain a carry license. Only a fraction of those that spend the time and effort to get a license typically routinely carry.

This means most of the people carrying would be faculty, older adults returning to school, and some of the seniors.

Yet any time time the media mentions the topic one of the sides is talking about campuses full of gun toting freshmen.
Implying both that just because the law allowed CCW on campus that most students both could carry and would be carrying. Neither of which is true.

 

[Thlax]

Exactly. It's nots as if every American applies for the CCW. The amount of young men who do are of a certain breed, a maturity, and understanding. Not everyone will go through the proccess. Only 8 states (I believe, could be wrong I forget...) allow one to obtain a CCW at the age of 18.

As stated, if I applied as a senior in HS in Delaware at 18, I could visit UDelaware and carry on campus (to my knowledge). However it is the code of conduct I now am held to as a student that limits me from carry to class...yet every minute out of class I can (off campus).

Very well stated above Zoog-

Just because it's legal doesn't mean everyone will. If the national age limit was dropped to 18 for CCW does that mean more people will? Of course. Does that mean EVERY 18yr will? Of course not. Just as most 21yr don't.

 

[shotgunjoel]

On 2 year campuses like community colleges, people straight from high school would not likely be old enough to carry before they graduated or transferred.

Dude, have you ever been inside a community college? I was just at the local community college today and only about half of the students were under 25. Most of the ones over 25 either looked like they are the type that go to Community college for 10 years, or looked like they were looking for a warm place to spend the day. Then there were People (mostly women) in their 50's that were obviously going back to school. I would say that the majority of community college students are at least 21.

 

[Zoogster]

shotgunjoel said:

Dude, have you ever been inside a community college? I was just at the local community college today and only about half of the students were under 25. Most of the ones over 25 either looked like they are the type that go to Community college for 10 years, or looked like they were looking for a warm place to spend the day. Then there were People (mostly women) in their 50's that were obviously going back to school. I would say that the majority of community college students are at least 21.

That is because a lot more people have gone back to school midway into the recession. A lot of people unable to find work went back to school to wait out the recession or try to get new skills for some other job because what they were doing before has dried up.
It is not a typical scenario though, and will remedy itself eventually.

Colleges and similar education centers are one of the few businesses doing extremely well right now, where you can sell a high priced item costing thousands of dollars and still get tons of buyers.
People will go into debt for classes, but getting them to buy most several thousand dollar products is difficult.
That is why new accrediting centers have been opening for everything under the sun, including numerous jobs that never required an education before.
Now you can get certified for dozens of jobs that previously were learned in weeks of on the job training (and they used to pay people a paycheck while training them for these same jobs, but now you get to pay to be trained the same thing much slower to get a paper saying you know it.)
It is kind of a scam, but the thing is once enough people get credentials for jobs that used to be learned on the job, employers will start to expect it. So it feeds itself. This makes the education business quite successful.

 

[Ignition Override]

Imagine how many guys around age 21-28 are earning undergrad degrees, and are combat veterans (or were base security etc), LEOs or other civilians who grew up with guns (esp. from a farm).

Wouldn't most, if not nearly all of them be the most qualified due to their recent "field experience"?

Do colleges and universities seem aware of their existence on so many campuses, or simply choose to ignore the reality?
I doubt that the VA Tech massacre would have happened if "student deterrence" had been possible and advertised beforehand.

We should be proud to have qualified young men or women offering to be there for their fellow students' defense.

 

[TexasBill]

One of the big problems is tying campus carry to incidents like Virginia Tech. The idea is not to have a bunch of armed vigilantes saving the world from the occasional psychopath, it's for the student's personal protection and that's the way it should be approached. There are certainly enough rapes, robberies and assaults to justify campus carry without invoking the tragic, but still rare, mass homicides.

 

[Dr_B]

I agree with TexasBill. Campus carry is being argued as a way to prevent Virginia Tech-like crimes. That's one of the arguments that was used to support it here in Idaho. I think that's the wrong way to approach it. In my opinion, I think carrying a firearm on campus is our right just like carrying downtown, etc... A state institution shouldn't have the power to restrict a constitutional right.

Allow concealed carry only, and only for folks with permits. Restrict it at sports events and tailgate parties.

Personally, I don't think people should carry with the intention of saving the day by taking out an active shooter. If the shooter came into your classroom, maybe it would be the thing to do. But if they are somewhere else on campus you have no business going after them.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Legal ramifications are huge It might be considered a right to carry, possess, but shooting another different ball game...Look at the Costco shoot in Vegas and its problems...

Public school or private, different set of rules..Similar to a business not wanting you on their premises

Brewer (as mentioned before) did the right thing at this date and time IMHO...

 

[Thlax]

The people who bring guns to campus right now by breaking the law are the ones who do the crime. Ie :Virginia tech.

And because I follow the law I am more at risk and can not protect myself.

Someone explain this. Ugh.

 

[Bohemus]

Doesn't Utah have Campus carry? How come I haven't heard of any shootouts in THEIR classrooms?

Nor Ive heard of shooting sprees in other countries that enable CCW at schools - namely CZ (and compare it with its neighbours).

 

[DeathByCactus]

That's a shame, I hope it comes back around for AZ. Been waiting on our TX bill to pass, sadly I don't think it will pass before I graduate.

 

[XxWINxX94]

Does anyone have a link or just know which state(s) allow campus carry?

 

[kozak6]

I doubt that the VA Tech massacre would have happened if "student deterrence" had been possible and advertised beforehand.

"Hey Cho! Come onto this public right of way so I can shoot you!"

Campus carry is one thing. The bill Brewer did not sign is another thing entirely.

Brewer didn't sign the bill because it was imprecise and unclear, and I think she was right not to sign it.

 

[Dulvarian]

I'd rather see national constitutional concealed carry than piece-meal battles on the state by state level. Yes, I understand the logistics of one piece at a time, and winning small battles.

The Second Amendment has been pretty much ruled to be an individual right, and I fail to see how the Bill of Rights fails to equally apply to all areas of the Republic. The only reason that it fails to do so is a failure of elected government to accept the will of the people. Personally, I feel that the right exists, and is being infringed upon in more than a few areas.

I will fail to continue tapping the drum on this, because I don't think that enough people will bother to get behind it at this moment.

And I need to get some more time on the range to keep my sig line true.

 

[Neverwinter]

Colleges and similar education centers are one of the few businesses doing extremely well right now, where you can sell a high priced item costing thousands of dollars and still get tons of buyers.
People will go into debt for classes, but getting them to buy most several thousand dollar products is difficult.
That is why new accrediting centers have been opening for everything under the sun, including numerous jobs that never required an education before.
Now you can get certified for dozens of jobs that previously were learned in weeks of on the job training (and they used to pay people a paycheck while training them for these same jobs, but now you get to pay to be trained the same thing much slower to get a paper saying you know it.)
It is kind of a scam, but the thing is once enough people get credentials for jobs that used to be learned on the job, employers will start to expect it. So it feeds itself. This makes the education business quite successful.

How does the phrase go? Mindset, skillset, toolset.

Education sells a mindset and skillset. Products you can buy will break down, but the mindset and skillset of learning never does. For-profit colleges and certification companies only teach a limited, specific set of skills. Their emergence doesn't diminish the value of all education.

That reminds me, I've been meaning to cull the collection to pay for a Gunsite class.