Buffalo Bore on Charter Bulldogs

[Panzerschwein]

Hello guys!

As you may know, I have recently bought a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 special. I got one made in February of this year, so it's brand new. It works great, and I really like the gun so far. I plan on using it as a carry gun and for secondary home defense as well.

That being said, I was in the market for an effective carry load. I kept hearing about the Blazer 200 grain Gold Dot and how it was a good load for the Bulldog, but I also came across Buffalo Bore's line of .44 special ammo. Now I've always heard that the Charter Bulldogs were not meant for hot loads, but I found a particular load that sounded like it would be a real winner IF it was safe to use in my Bulldog. Here is the load from Buffalo Bore that I'm referring to:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=271

It's a 190 grain soft-cast lead semi-wadcutter hollow point advertised at 1005 FPS from a 2" barreled test gun they fired it from. Should get at least that from the Bulldog's 2.5" barrel. But, they had a disclaimer of sorts in the product description:

This ammunition is for use in ALL 44 SPL and 44 MAG. firearms except the Charter Arms Bull Dog. No, this ammo won't blow up your Bull Dog, but if you shoot more than a few hundred rounds of this ammo in a Bull Dog, the gun will get looser than it already was, will go out of "time" and stop working.

Needless to say, I rather quickly stopped considering this load for carry, after all I didn't want to damage my new Bulldog. But, before giving up hope completely, I figured I would message Buffalo Bore to see if they could elaborate on the matter of using this .44 special load in a Charter Arms Bulldog. This is the message I sent them:

Name: Dillon
Subject: .44 special quesiton
Message: Hello, I am wondering if it would be safe to fire about one box of your 14C/20 in a Charter Arms Bulldog, and then use it as a carry load. I would not fire it but 20 times with the ammo to check point of aim. In the description for the 190 grain LHP .44 special it says it won't blow up a bulldog but could make the gun go out of time by firing a few 100 rounds. I'd only be shooting one 20 round box, like I said, but would really like to use this as a carry load as it looks very effective. Would this be unreasonable or unwise? Thanks so much for your time!

Time Stamp: 03/22/2015 10:53am

As you might notice, I sent this just this morning, and got a reply shortly thereafter. Here it is straight from Buffalo Bore themselves:

Hi Dillon,

The current Bull Dogs/Charter Arms revolvers are much better built than older ones, so while we have not tested the new ones, we’d say if you know you have a Charter built in the last 7-10 years, yes you can at least shoot a limited amount of any of our 44 SPL loads in it.

Best Regards,
Wayne Brown
Buffalo Bore Ammo

So there you have it. According to Buffalo Bore, it is in fact safe to fire limited amounts of their .44 special ammo in a Charter Arms Bulldog of recent manufacture. I intend to grab a couple boxes of the mentioned 190 grain LSWCHP load to test fire in my gun, and if everything checks out, it will be my carry load. It's generating some impressive numbers, and with that big soft cast hollow point I bet it gets excellent expansion at the 1000 FPS+ it should get from the 2.5" barrel on my gun. Naturally, as the company has stated, this isn't a load one should fire hundreds of times in their Bulldog, but it won't harm the gun for occasional use.

I just figured I'd let you guys know about this, in case you have a .44 Bulldog that you'd like some nice and effective ammo for. Remember, like Buffalo Bore said, you want to be sure you have a Bulldog that isn't more than 10 years or so old and is obviously in good mechanical condition. If so, this might broaden your horizons for carry ammo.

Regards,

Cooldill.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Good to know! I've always had a sneaking admiration for the old Bulldog.

 

[Drail]

Having shot, carrried and repaired Bulldogs for almost 40 years I can assure you that they will not stand up to high performance loads for long. The gun was designed at a time when the only loads commercially available were pretty low powered ( 246 gr. lead @ 750 fps). That's OK if you're launching a 240 gr. chunk of lead. High velocity is totally unnecessary when you have a bullet with that much mass. Try to increase the power level of the cartridge and you go outside the design envelope of the gun. I have seen quite a few of these guns that handloaders got stupid with. If you consider a Bulldog to be a disposable/replaceable item then go ahead and wail on it. If you plan on keeping it for a while - lighten up Francis. A 200 gr. GDHP @ 850 - 900 fps. is PLENTY of power and won't beat the gun or your wrist to death. My daily carry (and practice) load for my Bulldog is a 200 gr. full wadcutter @ 900 fps or less - it does terrible damage to soft targets. If you want a .44 Magnum buy a .44 Magnum. Running max hot loads in a Bulldog is like buying a new car and revving the engine to the redline and dumping the clutch at every stop light. It probably won't blow up - but you'll be putting some money into it pretty soon. And a newer production Bulldog is not any stronger or tougher than the original was. It's the same gun with a one piece barrel now instead of the shrouded thin barrel used on the original. Like I said before - there is no good reason to use high performance loads to try "improve" the performance in a Charter. Standard loads are more than enough for anti personnel use.

 

[gun_with_a_view]

I take it from that a 38 Special Bulldog might last a long, long time.

 

[moxie]

Stick with the Gold Dot. I do. And so do most of the guys who responded to your earlier thread. Why? It's good, it works, and it doesn't break your gun.

You don't want a round that you can't practice with occasionally.

 

[Drail]

Jeff Cooper described the Charter revolver as a gun to carry a lot and shoot a little. That's pretty much the truth.

 

[Old Fuff]

In terms of lightweight .44 Special revolvers I have one of the older Charter Arms models with adjustable sights and a 4" barrel.

I also have a later production Taurus model 445 with a 2" barrel.

They're is no way I'd shoot Buffalo Bore .44 Special ammunition in either of them! That said, in a heavier .44 Special or .44 Magnum I might.

Besides the obvious issues concerning the affect of ultra-heavy loads in small, lightweight revolvers, one should consider how quickly they can get off a second, accurate shot firing one-handed.

Why one-handed? Isn't that rather old school technique? Maybe, but it may be necessary if one arm/hand is disabled or otherwise not available.

Total attention on cartridge performance to the exclusion of all other factors can be a bad mistake.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Point well taken gents, how does the Gold Dot load do from the 2.5" barrel on the new Bulldogs? Does it expand? Which is better, the Blazer version or the Speer version?

 

[Drail]

I have tested the Gold Dot from a Bulldog and they all expanded perfectly. Fired into 1 gal. water jugs every bullet went through 3 jugs and stopped in the 4th. I have no idea on velocity but the Gold Dot was designed to expand at around 850 fps. and it does. I would have no qualms about carrying them in a Bulldog. Same exact bullet is used in Blazer and Lawman. A 200 gr. Gold Dot and a Bulldog are a very good match.

 

[Old Fuff]

Does it expand? Which is better, the Blazer version or the Speer version?

It really doesn't matter.

A .44 is already expanded over a .38 when it leaves the bore.

Regardless of what it does to water-filled jugs, keep in mind that people aren't made up of water. If I want to blow up a water jug I'll reduce the bullet weight as much as possible, and increase the velocity as high as I can without developing too much pressure. While this prescription is great on jugs it doesn't always do that well on human bodies.

If a bullet can penetrate far enough to reach vital organs, going further is a moot point, although if the bullet exits you have two ways for air to get in, and blood to get out. Neither is good news for the individual who has been hit.

In the hands of a competent marksman a 2" snubby will work out to 100 yards or more, but it's highly unlikely one will be employed at such a distance. Arms length to 25 yards is far more likely, and some might cut that to 15 yards.

Again, being too focused on bullet performance (which under any circumstances is not totally predictable) while excluding other considerations is a mistake.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have tested the Gold Dot from a Bulldog and they all expanded perfectly. Fired into 1 gal. water jugs every bullet went through 3 jugs and stopped in the 4th. I have no idea on velocity but the Gold Dot was designed to expand at around 850 fps. and it does. I would have no qualms about carrying them in a Bulldog. Same exact bullet is used in Blazer and Lawman. A 200 gr. Gold Dot and a Bulldog are a very good match.

Thanks, Drail.

With all do respect, I don't put much stock into water expansion tests. Water typically results in maximum expansion and if you ask me, it isn't a good representation of what one could expect in living tissue. Almost any hollow point will get picture perfect expansion in water.

I have never found any ballistics gel tests for this load fired from a 2.5" Bulldog. For as many recommendations it gets, I find this surprising. Anyone know how the Blazer .44 special Gold dot, or Speer Gold dot .44 special load does in ballistics gel?

 

[35 Whelen]

I handload but got a couple dozen rounds of the 200 GDHP in a trade. I chronographed them out of my old 3" Bulldog and got 733 fps. No matter because I have zero use for jacketed bullets in handguns.
I wrung my Bulldog out pretty good when I got it firing everything from 200 gr. RNFP's at 650 fps to 260 gr. SWC's at 850+ fps. I finally settled on a home-cast 185 gr. WC running 853 fps...a very accurate load that's easy on the hand and the revolver.



Like others, I don't get worked up over an expanding bullet. I've seen first hand what a non-expanding .44 caliber lead bullet at relatively low velocity does inside a deer. Trust me, they work.

35W

 

[Panzerschwein]

See that's exactly what I'm saying.

I've heard from those who've actually chronographed the GD .44 special loads from a Charter Bulldog of low velocities with either the Speer variant or the Blazer. I just don't trust it to expand, and I've never seen a proper gel test of said loads. I have no place to do a test of my own, otherwise I would.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I fired 20 rounds of Blazer 200 Gold Dots yesterday That all I wanted I fired last 5 as fast as I could pull trigger. .
If expands good If doesn't still getting smacked about same as a 45 acp ball from a Compact. It will hurt and I think they will loose interest in hurting you If not give them another.
44 special like many other calibers has worked long befor the invention oh must have hollow points .
I have 240 gr lead wad cutters approx 760FPS I would carry them if all I have.

 

[cluttonfred]

It really doesn't matter.

A .44 is already expanded over a .38 when it leaves the bore.

Old Fuff hit the nail on the head here. The CA Bulldog in .44 Special is intended to be a step up from a .38 Special for those that like a bigger hole in the end of their gun and in whatever they're shooting at but still want a relatively light and small snubbie. Standard pressure wadcutters or soft lead hollowpoint are all you need in .44 Special for social work.

If you really want to up the performance to near .44 Magnum levels, then just get a .44 Magnum and be done with it. Of course, even with an equivalent 2.5" barrel, a 6-shot .44 Magnum revolver (Ruger Alaskan, S&W 629) is going to be bulkier and heavier than the CA Bulldog, but you can load it up with big booming loads to your heart's content (but your hand may not thank you).

 

[GBExpat]

I am currently carrying 250gr LHPs in my Bulldogs, loaded to ~800fps with 6gr of 700x. These bullets expand very nicely in a dry, fine-grain clay/sand mix, the load is accurate and the recoil is manageable for me.



Still awaiting drier conditions to test some BE-86 loads with 200gr GoldDots.

Blazer AL-cased 200gr GoldDots only run ~775fps out of my Bulldogs and I would like to speed that up a bit.

 

[gun_with_a_view]

What's best, five 44's versus six 38's is the same conundrum posed once by five 38's in a J frame or six 32 MAG rounds. Everyone has an opinion, but nobody seems to know.

 

[35 Whelen]

What's best, five 44's versus six 38's is the same conundrum posed once by five 38's in a J frame or six 32 MAG rounds. Everyone has an opinion, but nobody seems to know.

I have access to 5 and 6 shot revolvers as well as a similar sized 9mm auto with a 7 round magazine. My philosophy is: I don't plan on missing and a bigger hole is always better. Therefore I choose my Bulldog every time I carry.

35W

 

[Drail]

"I don't plan on missing and a bigger hole is always better" Words to live by my friends.

 

[Walkalong]

I will add that I too won't be shooting any Buffalo Bore stuff through my older 3" Bulldog.

A 200 Gr WC around 850ish FPS or a 240 Gr SWC around 800ish FPS will do anything you need it to for personal protection. I can get that in my 3" gun.

Mine shoots the Lee 208 WC and store bought 240 Gr cast bullets great, and they leave full caliber holes all the way through things.

Will they pass the windshield test? I don't know, but I also don't believe I will ever have that problem. Well, I guess it could happen a crazy person would attack me while in a car and I had no way out but to shoot through the windshield. I suppose.....

 

[CraigC]

I am currently carrying 250gr LHPs in my Bulldogs, loaded to ~800fps with 6gr of 700x. These bullets expand very nicely in a dry, fine-grain clay/sand mix, the load is accurate and the recoil is manageable for me.

I'd LOVE to find a commercial source for a bullet like that!!!

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have seen that Underwood makes a load they call the "Bull Dog", uses the well known 200 grain Speer Gold Dot but is faster than either the Speer version or the Blazer versions that use the same bullet, but it's not as hot as Buffalo Bore. It's an intriguing load, but currently out of stock. Made specifically for the Charter Arms Bulldog, hence the name.

As for the other 200 grain Gold Dots, they just seem slow from a 2.5" bulldog barrel. That's the length bbl I have. Speer said this bullet will open as low as 800 FPS, but all chronograph data I've seen for 2.5" bbls clock well under that...

 

[GBExpat]

I'd LOVE to find a commercial source for a bullet like that!!!

They are quite nice ...

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...id=263&zenid=a2ed772bb14796011610d3a62894eeb2

 

[Drail]

The old theory that jacketed hollowpoint handgun bullets cannot possibly expand when driven at typical handgun velocities simply isn't true today - but it was true for many, many years. Bullet design has come a long way in the last 20 years. The Gold Dot was designed from its inception to expand at velocities around 850 fps. And in my tests they do. In other words, don't get too hung up on velocity from a snub as your sole consideration when choosing a bullet. As always you need to test for expansion from your gun. The Gold Dot was a big step forward in bullet design. I use them in all of my snub revolvers - or I use a medium weight hard cast full wadcutter.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Anybody ever use the Underwood load I mentioned?