For a while I've been curious as to how i would go about building a 1911 pistol. for example what parts should i be looking for first and what are some factors to keep in mind, If anybody has advice on the matter it would be very useful, thanks.
Building a 1911
- Thread starter Nar
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The factor that comes to mind first to me is what kind of machines/tooling do you already own and how much are you willing to invest in dedicated 1911 tools and fixtures. If you're a master machinist with plenty of scrap stock on hand it's one story. If you're a tinkerer with a handful of files (like me) it's a whole 'nother story.
You might consider a 1911 kit from Fusion Arms. They offer a certain amount of pre-fitting if you need it
Imo before you build your own from the ground up, You should rebuild a turd into a diamond.
You will quickly see with just hand tools you can only do the most basic of jobs needed in building a 1911 from the ground up.
But starting with that turd you can do all the same things but most of the hard stuff is done already.
Plus you wont have fear of messing up that $1k frame and slide.
Ive rebuilt a gun from the pins and springs up and all that was from the original gun was the frame/slide and barrel and i replaced everything else and fit each part by hand and made sure i ordered over sized parts as drop in parts are just a waste of money imo.
My build went like this:
Dissasemble,order parts,wait,wait,parts come in, file,file, curse,file,reorder a better fitting part, wait, get part, file,file, move to next part,file,file,Curse and go back to first part and file it to make it work with the second part,file,file,move to next group of parts, spend a week looking for one that will fit,wait,wait,get it in, file once as i got lucky.
I could go on, But thats how it can go just fitting 3 parts.
And im not even taking into account all the sweat and fear of making the file slip and going too far. How the Master Smiths build guns from the ground up that look so amazing is beyond me. They may ask $3000 for it but if you ask me they should ask $6000 as i know what they went threw building that gun.
So what im saying is start slow, Get a cheap project gun and buy budget parts but good ones that are over sized and hand fit them. Then modify the gun how you like it and refinish it if you can as thats a whole new world also separate from building guns. Sending it out is usually better as refinishing is a long learning process just like building a 1911 is.
You will quickly see with just hand tools you can only do the most basic of jobs needed in building a 1911 from the ground up.
But starting with that turd you can do all the same things but most of the hard stuff is done already.
Plus you wont have fear of messing up that $1k frame and slide.
Ive rebuilt a gun from the pins and springs up and all that was from the original gun was the frame/slide and barrel and i replaced everything else and fit each part by hand and made sure i ordered over sized parts as drop in parts are just a waste of money imo.
My build went like this:
Dissasemble,order parts,wait,wait,parts come in, file,file, curse,file,reorder a better fitting part, wait, get part, file,file, move to next part,file,file,Curse and go back to first part and file it to make it work with the second part,file,file,move to next group of parts, spend a week looking for one that will fit,wait,wait,get it in, file once as i got lucky.
I could go on, But thats how it can go just fitting 3 parts.
And im not even taking into account all the sweat and fear of making the file slip and going too far. How the Master Smiths build guns from the ground up that look so amazing is beyond me. They may ask $3000 for it but if you ask me they should ask $6000 as i know what they went threw building that gun.
So what im saying is start slow, Get a cheap project gun and buy budget parts but good ones that are over sized and hand fit them. Then modify the gun how you like it and refinish it if you can as thats a whole new world also separate from building guns. Sending it out is usually better as refinishing is a long learning process just like building a 1911 is.
Magnumite
Member
First thing which may benefit you is to know what purpose the pistol will fulfill, what format pistol you want and a vision of the end product.
Then you start acquiring sources for information, instruction and parts you'll need. A really nice start would be one of Wilson Combats "kits" - frame, slide, barrel w/bushing, grip safety and a few other components. all major fitting is done already, you will be using quality stuff and you can learn without hassles from out of spec parts. It costs about $700 but you're going to spend at least that much on parts anyway, quite possibly more.
Then you start acquiring sources for information, instruction and parts you'll need. A really nice start would be one of Wilson Combats "kits" - frame, slide, barrel w/bushing, grip safety and a few other components. all major fitting is done already, you will be using quality stuff and you can learn without hassles from out of spec parts. It costs about $700 but you're going to spend at least that much on parts anyway, quite possibly more.
Zerodefect
member
I would get a Fusion 1911 kit. It allready has the slide, frame, barrel and link, and bushing all prefit. I'd have them also fit a EdBrown thumb safety and a 10-8 Forged slide stop.
The thumb safety is an absolute nightmare to fit, I'll never fit an EB thumb safety ever again. The Slide stop isn't any nicer. The thumb safety feel and slide smoothness is a huge deal that sets "real" 1911's apart from production guns. Very easy to screw those up.
The trigger parts are easy to do as long as you have an EdBrown Sear jig and start with Wilsons best parts.
Expect to spend 200+hr's with an Arkansas stone and India stone.
You can google for trigger job vids.
Here's a simple build up thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=70569
The thumb safety is an absolute nightmare to fit, I'll never fit an EB thumb safety ever again. The Slide stop isn't any nicer. The thumb safety feel and slide smoothness is a huge deal that sets "real" 1911's apart from production guns. Very easy to screw those up.
The trigger parts are easy to do as long as you have an EdBrown Sear jig and start with Wilsons best parts.
Expect to spend 200+hr's with an Arkansas stone and India stone.
You can google for trigger job vids.
Here's a simple build up thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=70569
schmeky
Member
Nar,
If you want to build a mil-spec pistol, it's not to difficult. If you want to build a match grade pistol, you won't achieve this on your first attempt, especially if you have no experience or specialized 1911 tooling.
It really is an art to build a high end 1911.
If you want to build a mil-spec pistol, it's not to difficult. If you want to build a match grade pistol, you won't achieve this on your first attempt, especially if you have no experience or specialized 1911 tooling.
It really is an art to build a high end 1911.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I would get an already working low end 1911 like a Springfield Mil-Spec, or Auto-Ordnance and go from there, adding whatever after-market parts you want to add.
If you screw up a new part, put the original part back in.
Unlike kits & parts, you will end up with a working gun regardless of what you do, and a bunch of money left over to shoot it.
rc
If you screw up a new part, put the original part back in.
Unlike kits & parts, you will end up with a working gun regardless of what you do, and a bunch of money left over to shoot it.
rc
bindingposts
Member
Buy a RIA. You can get a goverment or commander size frame. I spent less than 400 using gunbroker. Just do a search for Belshireguns on there.
Use the money you saved to get addons like a beavertail grip safety, extended slide stops or safetys, Hammers and sears / triggers.
Armscor makes a solid gun for the money, and you won't have to worry about filing for the beaver tail, or hand fitting other parts.
Use the money you saved to get addons like a beavertail grip safety, extended slide stops or safetys, Hammers and sears / triggers.
Armscor makes a solid gun for the money, and you won't have to worry about filing for the beaver tail, or hand fitting other parts.
Don't do it its a waste of time any money and you will end up with a gun that probably doesn't feed well and is not accurate.
You really need about $500 in 1911 gun smith tools and fixtures and a lot of knowledge, even a journeyman machinist would have trouble with out proper training and guideance.
I did one back in the late 80's with the best parts around, fitted what I could myself and then had a gunsmith do the complicated parts.
Ended up spending about a $1000 and it turned out to be a piece of junk, sold it for $500 and I would never do it again.
At that time you could have bought a colt gold cup 45 for $650, so it always better and cheaper to buy a gun already finished, then it is to build one yourself.
One thing many ppl don't know is that when you put a gun together with no name or different parts, they are considered frankenstien guns and really have no resale value.
No gun shop or person will pay much for a gun made from different parts, if they know what they are doing.
You see this being done with a lot of 1911 platforms and ar15 platforms.
If you are dead set on building a custom 1911 the way to start out is to buy a quality base gun new or used, colt 45acp, Sti , Kimber etc.
The key here is to start with a complete matching gun and then upgrade it as you like.
Also don't put a lot in a cheap entry level 45 like the ria or armscorp etc, if you ever decide to sell it you won't get anymore than the price used price of the base gun , even if you put $2K into it.
You really need about $500 in 1911 gun smith tools and fixtures and a lot of knowledge, even a journeyman machinist would have trouble with out proper training and guideance.
I did one back in the late 80's with the best parts around, fitted what I could myself and then had a gunsmith do the complicated parts.
Ended up spending about a $1000 and it turned out to be a piece of junk, sold it for $500 and I would never do it again.
At that time you could have bought a colt gold cup 45 for $650, so it always better and cheaper to buy a gun already finished, then it is to build one yourself.
One thing many ppl don't know is that when you put a gun together with no name or different parts, they are considered frankenstien guns and really have no resale value.
No gun shop or person will pay much for a gun made from different parts, if they know what they are doing.
You see this being done with a lot of 1911 platforms and ar15 platforms.
If you are dead set on building a custom 1911 the way to start out is to buy a quality base gun new or used, colt 45acp, Sti , Kimber etc.
The key here is to start with a complete matching gun and then upgrade it as you like.
Also don't put a lot in a cheap entry level 45 like the ria or armscorp etc, if you ever decide to sell it you won't get anymore than the price used price of the base gun , even if you put $2K into it.
GLOCK45GUY
Member
I started with a beat to hell Argentine sistema I picked up for about 200 bucks. replaced all the clock\trigger parts, opened up the ejection port some, softened all the sharp edges, glassed up the ramp and barrel, cut tangs to fit BGS, sent the slide to be cut for NOVAKS, and blasted and reparked myself. also hand made some grips out of a plank of wood.
I put about 225 into it and the gun can cycle empty cases all day long and is accurate enough for me (not a comp shooter, but a former USMC SGT).
One of my most prized firearms.
Get yourself a good 1911 manual and be intimate with it before you even get the first part in the mail. You really need to know how all those parts fit and work together before you waste any time or money. also gives you a good idea of the level of involvment and tools required before you start.
I put about 225 into it and the gun can cycle empty cases all day long and is accurate enough for me (not a comp shooter, but a former USMC SGT).
One of my most prized firearms.
Get yourself a good 1911 manual and be intimate with it before you even get the first part in the mail. You really need to know how all those parts fit and work together before you waste any time or money. also gives you a good idea of the level of involvment and tools required before you start.
its a lot more to it then buying a 1911 manual, fitting the barrell/ lugs, bushing , slide, hammer, sear, and thumb safety are tricky issues and must be done properly. The manual isn't going to show you how to exactly fit these parts, along with the tricky set up and fixtures required. Your also need a lathe and mill, and machinists precison vises.
Jim Watson
Member
I've seen it done, but you can use up some parts learning to do it by eye.
That sort of stuff used to be cheap enough to experiment with but not these days.
That sort of stuff used to be cheap enough to experiment with but not these days.
Eagle Eyes
Member
Hmm funny how I saw no one mention this (maybe missed it):
The VERY FIRST thing you should do is CHECK YOUR STATE LAWS about how to get the frame transfered to your local FFL dealer, if they allow it, since that is what is considered the actual handgun per BATF&E. For instance in California if it is not on the "SAFE HANDGUN roster" a FFL dealer can not transfer the frame into California (damn socialists).
Once you fiqure that out THEN looking at the kits and so forth would be the next step........ just saying
P.S. There is some really good kits that require minimal fitting by hand. There is QUITE A FEW video's out that show you The Good, The Bad and THE Ugly not only in different kits but how to assembly correctly and even how to mix and match parts from different kits to get the best fits. Goto Brownell's, MidwayUSA, Cabalas etc. and they have alot of videos on the subject ....watch them then decide .....ALOT cheaper than having a bunch of parts and getting in over your head.
The VERY FIRST thing you should do is CHECK YOUR STATE LAWS about how to get the frame transfered to your local FFL dealer, if they allow it, since that is what is considered the actual handgun per BATF&E. For instance in California if it is not on the "SAFE HANDGUN roster" a FFL dealer can not transfer the frame into California (damn socialists).
Once you fiqure that out THEN looking at the kits and so forth would be the next step........ just saying
P.S. There is some really good kits that require minimal fitting by hand. There is QUITE A FEW video's out that show you The Good, The Bad and THE Ugly not only in different kits but how to assembly correctly and even how to mix and match parts from different kits to get the best fits. Goto Brownell's, MidwayUSA, Cabalas etc. and they have alot of videos on the subject ....watch them then decide .....ALOT cheaper than having a bunch of parts and getting in over your head.
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GLOCK45GUY
Member
In my case, the gun already fired prior to me doing anything to her. She just felt like sand had been dumped in the clock adn trigger parts.
Barrel to slide lugs, and Slide to reciever fit was not touched at all.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=199119
Id say that a good manual will get you very far. Im at no means calling myself a gunsmith. I will only work on my own guns.
Barrel to slide lugs, and Slide to reciever fit was not touched at all.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=199119
Id say that a good manual will get you very far. Im at no means calling myself a gunsmith. I will only work on my own guns.
Jolly Rogers
Member
It's possible to do. I suggest tons of research here and at a couple of devoted 1911 forums (in the gunsmithing subforums) to gather the necessary knowledge.
Joe
Joe
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