Bullet casting, should I ?

[tbtrout]

I am thinking about casting my own bullets. It seems like the next logical step in reloading. But I want to know, is it worth it? Looking at the equipment needed, the amount of mold cavities that can be done at one time affordably. And the fact a range session seldom goes for less than 500 rounds if I am shooting semi-auto. It almost looks like single stage reloading as compared to a progressive. Is it be worth the time, or am I better off spending the money on bulk bullets and keep loading as usual?

Thanks in advance for the feedback

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

It's a no brainer. Bulk lead bullets run over 35 dollars for 500. I am casting the same with free wheel weights. My cost for .45ACP is under $2.00 a box.

I recommend a turkey cooker for smelting wheel weights and a Lee 4-20 pot for casting from wheel weight ingot along with a six gang Lee mold for your pistol bullets. This setup makes casting efficient, fun and easily affordable.


Here's a site where you can fill in the details related to casting affordably:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php?

 

[1911user]

In my experience, casting makes sense if you have a lot of time to trade instead of buying bullets or you need something unusual. I don't cast anymore, I shoot too much and don't have the spare time. Instead of casting, I buy pistol bullets in bulk and on sale when possible. $40 for 1000 hardcast bullets that are sized and lubed (with hard, non-sticky lube) is cheap enough to leave the casting gear packed up in the garage.

 

[Phillip Allen]

Options are available for my cast bullets that simply are not available elsewhere. The hard lube is for the benefit of the bullet shipper not for me (think of those grocery store tomatoes grown because they can be dropped and beat up without damaging the appearance for marketing purposes). The best lubes are home made and not suitable for long term storage (years and not months)...too soft. They give superior accuracy though. I sort my bullets by weight and set the best aside for competition. I shoot revolvers and I shoot one bullet at a time...I practice at 75 yards with a 6" .357. It is work though and not for every body...if you are satisfied with the POP-POP of autoloaders then buy the bulk...you probably won't be able to tell the difference anyway so there is no point in working to make super accurate bullets. I don't mean this as a slam at auto loaders but rather am trying to point out the differences in goals. I have shot a 1", ten round group with my 40-65 at 100 yds and aperture sights...that is not available with factory bullets.

 

[jms92]

"In my experience, casting makes sense if you have a lot of time to trade instead of buying bullets or you need something unusual. I don't cast anymore, I shoot too much and don't have the spare time. Instead of casting, I buy pistol bullets in bulk and on sale when possible. $40 for 1000 hardcast bullets that are sized and lubed (with hard, non-sticky lube) is cheap enough to leave the casting gear packed up in the garage."

I agree with the above post... Casting is great if you have a lot of free time on your hands. (aka retired) I use to cast when the kids where little and there was no extra money. I have coffee cans full of bullets and I figure I can load 9mm for $1.00 a box. Lately I have been buying cast bullets in quantity, the more you buy the cheaper and I don't have the time to cast. Look for someone in your area that sells cast bullets. I'm getting 9mm for $26 and 45 for $36 a 1000 locally.

 

[tbtrout]

Dave, thank you for the site, I will be spending some more time there. Everyone else is echoing what I was originally thinking, time vs money for bulk. I do have an old timer that sells guns, ammo, reloading supplies cheaper than everyone else. I will continue with him while I do more research. It still appeals to me to try though. thanks for the input

 

[BruceB]

When I can cast well over 400 good bullets per hour from a TWO-cavity mould (and I can) and well over 800 per hour with a 4-cavity mould (and I can), with NO SPECIAL HIGH-OUTPUT MACHINERY, and when all this takes place in non-shooting time (i.e.: nights and/or bad weather) and considering that handloading and shooting are my ONE prime hobby....

I'd be a damned fool NOT to cast bullets. Even after forty years of casting, I devoutly believe this.

A handloader who buys all his components is only an assembler....he "MAKES" nothing. The ability to cast bullets is also the ability to select from an infinite variety of variables, and for those with an inquiring turn of mind, casting represents an endless source of research and entertainment. Bullet designs from mild to wild, alloys, diameters, lubes, and the list goes on.

If all one wants is repeatable muzzleblasts at a barn-door target at close range, commercial stuff will serve reasonably well. For those who are interested in the ammunition itself, and wringing the best-possible performance from it, casting whips the living daylights out of assembling commercial bullets into ammunition.

I just don't understand those who cite casting time as a cost factor. This is HOBBY time, and the more time I can spend with my hobby, the happier I am. $40/1000 for pistol bullets is comically expensive to me. A thousand home-cast bullets represent forty bucks I can spend on primers, or powder, or whatever. Total production time might amount to two or three hours, taking into account the necessary time spent sizing and lubing the new bullets. That is dirt-cheap, folks.

The thousand home-cast bullets REALLY get inexpensive when we speak of things like 400-grain .45-70 bullets.... Midway lists Oregon Trail .45-405s at $31.50/250, or $126 per thousand (plus shipping for 55 pounds+)! My cost, for similar bullets tailored to MY .45-70 rifles, with MY choice of design, hardness, diameter and lubricant, is the cost for power to melt the alloy (800 watts for three hours....25 cents??), and a tube or two of SELECTED, excellent lubricant ($1.50-$3.00), and for the 55 pounds of alloy, maybe three bucks for the half-bucket of wheelweight metal, and maybe no cost at all. So....maybe FIVE DOLLARS compared to $126??? It doesn't take long to amortize the equipment cost at that rate! Most of the big rifle bullets are cast from single-cavity moulds, but I can demonstrate 250 per hour from my 1-cavs any day of the week.

Plus, it's entertaining...

I'd be an unhappy man, if I was deprived of the ability to make my own.

 

[dmftoy1]

BruceB - your post is EXACTLY why I'm thinking of trying it. I can't quite justify it for the .45acp (but can almost). It's the 45-70 that's killing me!

I dropped a bucket off at my local ford dealer yesterday so once I accumulate 50-60lbs of wheel weights and finish reading my lyman's casting handbook I might purchase some equipment and give it a run.

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[Walkalong]

Casting is fun. Get into it cheap. Lee molds work fine. Have fun and if you get tired of it you will not have invested a lot of money and you will have had some fun. I made a homemade melter from a stove eye and a club aluminum pot. I bought a Lee .44 mold and some Rooster Jacket lube and a bottom pour dipper and got free wheelwieghts from gas stations to start and had a great time. I eventually added other stuff. I don't cast any more, but it was a lot of fun and I learned a lot.

 

[Phillip Allen]

I think Bruce's numbers are unrealistic...I cast for 500m target (40-65...409g bullet) and think I'm moving right along at one every 30 seconds...add to that, weighing them then lubing and/or sizing and I'm getting about one a minute...that said, he is right as the casting adds another layer/element to the whole hobby.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I've read BruceB's postings for many years now.

Including his articles on speed casting. I've tried the casting processes he describes. I use them regularly. His numbers aren't just realistic, they're fact. How do I know? I read his article, tried out his techniques. I got the same results.

Bruce is perhaps the most experienced, knowledgeable, accurate, shooter, reloader and caster I know of, except for a few others over on cast boolits. After reading his posts over the past several years, I make it a point to read anything he posts about, because I'm sure to learn something.

He's one of the guys over at cast boolits I hope will answer my posts over there, because I always know he'll be giving good solid information. I hope I can be as successful as he's already been in this good hobby of ours.

Just my .02, based on years of following his postings and advice, thereby getting great results.

Dave

 

[Phillip Allen]

Not possible unless he's using a battery of moulds (at $100 a pop)...I use a single because that is the way to get the SAME bullet over and over...there are minute differences between moulds cut with the same cherry. I also use a clock to insure consistently uniform bullets. I have tried other methods (been casting since the late '60's) and if the mould temp is allowed to vary much it changes the diameter of the resulting bullet...because I also shoot unsized bullets in a black powder rifle (currently) there is not an opportunity to correct the diameter with a sizing die.

 

[tbtrout]

Bruce,

Thank you for the input, Dave in Georgia gave me some pointers and recommended you as a reputable reference. I had to order the Lyman book today. I do plan in gining it a shot. Look forward to reading more of your posts.
Thanks Tim

 

[BruceB]

Sheesh (blush)......methinks that Dave has overstated my "sterling qualities" just a WEE bit.

However.

Phil, you say "not possible, unless using a battery of moulds...". It IS possible, and with only one $15.00 mould operating. In actual timed testing over quite a few years, I've found that using more than one mould slows me down, due to the increased number of hand motions involved.

I'll claim it again...with ONE single-cavity mould, nothing special, (Lee, Lyman or RCBS), and using a process I've cooked-down over a lot of time, I CAN turn out over 250 good bullets per hour. How good is "good"? RCBS 416-350s with a MAXIMUM spread of less than one grain over the production run, with visual inspection only and very few rejects. Or, RCBS 515-560s with similar spreads. Or, ditto for MULTIPLE-cavity moulds, for example a run of Lyman 'Loverin' 311467s (about 175 grains) a short while ago, with extreme weight spread of less than one grain from FOUR cavities.

On a timed run of 30 minutes a couple years back, I cast 159 good .30-130s from a LEE single-cavity mould. Yep, that is a tad over five bullets per minute. Bigger bullets take a bit longer due to more time needed to fill the mould each time.

The article is posted on:

www.castboolits.gunloads.com

Click on "homepage" on the toolbar, and then on "articles" in the left-hand column which comes up. The article is called "Speedcasting".

When costing-out those big fat rifle bullets from commercial bulletmakers, consider that the $126 figure I mentioned for 1000 Oregon Trail .45-405s will buy a Lee electric furnace, AND a couple of moulds, AND a Lee sizer or two. What's to lose??? I don't use much Lee stuff for actual handloading, but I've had great results from a lot of their moulds. Although I prefer iron for my moulds, I have a dozen or more Lees that get regular use as well. One of the .45-400 hollow-base Lee designs does very well indeed in my .45-70 rifle. Others report excellent results from the Lee .45 400 non-hollowbase design, as well.

It's a wonderful extension of the hobby, this bulletcasting stuff. Highly recommended!

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Casting is FUN

As a lifetime DX with every weapon tried, Youngest NRA Jr Div DX in my state many decades ago, Member of my national guard State rifle team State big bore championships while in high school, Police Firearms Instructor, shooting was not a challange but making the most accurate ammunition possible and selling the best equipment and teaching my customers to make the most accurate identical weight bullets and the best resulting ammunition was a fun challange and I have enjoyed that for a long Long Time.

Paul Jones
Star Reloader Dealer Reconditioning Center
Original Saeco Bulletcasting Tool Co.
Fitz Pistol Grip Co.
Author "How To Live With And Love Your Progressive Reloader"
Retired and loving It

 

[Phillip Allen]

Bruce, I hope to get around to reading your link...how would you cool an ounce of molten lead without smearing the spur plate and top of mould...I've tried casting hot and as cold as I can...and points in between...the least culls come from a hot pour for me

 

[BruceB]

Howdy, Phil.

The biggest timesaver of the whole routine is this:

Once the mould is full and the sprue puddle formed, watch the puddle closely and wait JUST until the dimple forms and solidifies as the bullet draws the last of its alloy from the sprue.

At that point, the mould is turned upside down and the sprue is pressed against a wet (repeat, WET, not "damp") roll of cloth which sits in a shallow dish full of water. About two or three seconds in contact with that pad, and the mould is ready for opening. NO smearing of lead, NO "tearing" of craters in the bullet's base, NO distortion of the base by "bending" it to one side by the force of cutting the sprue. Just really nice bullets, made quickly.

I run my RCBS pot at its max temperature of 870 degrees all the time with wheelweights.

There's a lot more detail in the article at the link.

If you have any interest in making rather interesting cast softpoint hunting bullets from almost any base-pour mould, we can fix you up on that, too (brag, brag...yeah, I know!)

 

[Phillip Allen]

Bruce, I don't hunt anymore...my interest is in long range silhouette shooting with my 40-65 (409g bullet...inch and a quarter long...home made lube)

 

[BruceB]

Hello again, Phil.

It sounds like perhaps you're using blackpowder for your long range rifle shooting(?).

I note that you referred to shooting unsized bullets in a "blackpowder rifle".

One of the best forums I've found for BPCR shooting is the "shooter to shooter" forum at

www.shilohrifle.com

and believe me, there's enough reading there to keep a rifleman going for MONTHS! I spend a lot of time there on occasion, and learn something on practically every visit. Hard to beat that, right?? I shoot a Shiloh .45-70, but haven't gotten around to using much blackpowder in the rifle since I had it rebarreled from .50-2.5" a couple of years ago. Still working my way through the combinations and permutations with smokeless and a half-dozen different .45 rifle moulds.

There's a Blackpowder Forum at Cast Boolits, too, and we have some interesting discussions. Drop in and say "hi" to the group! It's amazing, the width and depth of this shooting hobby....

 

[Phillip Allen]

Thanks...I'm fairly new to BPCR shooting but I spent 25 years in muzzle loading competition...shot with some of the best (who eventually got to know my name). After some years of being away from it I thought I might inject a little new life into my shooting if I switched over to the BPCR matches...my first match had me 5 for 10 at 500m...after that the curved butt plate had me beat up so bad I had trouble hitting the ground.

Yes, I shoot black powder...primitive is primitive and if I take short cuts I only cheat myself and look like a fool...and would be

 

[mugsie]

BruceB - please email me. I like the way you think. I reload but want to cast my own now (it's the next logical step). I have some quesitons I'd like to ask you about getting started. Thanks....

 

[Mad Turner]

Thought of Chairman BruceB

As soon as I started reading what Bruce had to say I knew he was a man of some knowledge and at risk of embarrasing him still further I would say that when he starts talking, shut up and listen. I read the Lee Reloading book years ago and could not put it down, it was like reading an adventure story and I determined then that casting was the way for the enthusiast, I always think that 51% of the hobby is in the shed. Do your bullet casting and your reloading and damn the expense and the time. Make it for yourself. Thats why I get so much fun out of my Sharps 54, I can make everything except the caps.

Thanks Guys for a lovely site.

Mad Turner

 

[Phillip Allen]

okay...you bunch of bullies are gonna talk me into trying his method...if I find it works, I'll acknowledge it (now I gotta go back and read ...scuse me for a bit)

 

[highlander 5]

How many companies sell a 250gr wadcutter for a 45 Colt? Or a 300gr rnfpgc in 44 cal none that I know of and that is why I cast my own bullets

 

[toecutter]

Echoing some of Bruce's thunder here... Should you cast bullets? Yes, yes you should. Even if you don't do it all the time it's fun. So far, casting was my first segway into my next project: swaging.

I'm also on the castboolits forum. Bruce and Dave (in flowerybranch...) are both great people who have great advice on most topics of reloading, casting etc.