Bullet seating depth question

[quartermaster]

I have a 270 WSM that I would like to try 150 gr bullets in. Currently I am shooting 130 VLD hunting which shoots pretty decently, but I’m not overly happy with the terminal performance. In working up my loads, I have used 130 gr BTs and Sierra GKs, but my rifle wasn’t crazy for either, accuracy wise despite trying all kind of variations. Not that they awful, but I want less than MOA.
I bought a couple of boxes of 150 gr, 1@ from different mfg’s, but upon seating them touching the lands, the heal of the bullet is well in the case body beyond the neck/shoulder junction. I never like to do this, but can’t say that I really ever gave this scenario a decent try.
So as to not waste my time and components, I was wondering if anyone was able to get accuracy in doing this. I realize I am using up case capacity, but looking for accuracy over velocity.
Would appreciate any input from anyone has loaded in this manner.
Thanks in advance
QM

 

[kmw1954]

While I am only loading a 223 I have been doing so for over 3 years now with many different weights and brands of bullets.

I have loaded for bullet jump and bullet jam. I try to pay attention to bullet seating depth and yes for some that depth by the load data in well into the case. By moving the seating depth I try to pay attention to the actual case volume created by the seating and adjust my powder charge accordingly. Basically I have found you just have to play with it to find what each bullet prefers. But I have usually been able to find something that works.

I also have just now started playing with the 6ARC cartridge for a bolt rifle..

 

[Hugger-4641]

First of all I wouldn't seat them touching the lands, I would want to be at least 0.010 off and usually going for 0.015 to 0.020. Vlds usually like more jump than that, so yes, the base of the bullet is likely to be well into the case, especially with a compressed load.

 

[quartermaster]

I used my homemade modified case to just see where they touched the lands And how far the bullet was going to be in the case. I never load to touch the lands, however I am very close with a couple of my target rifles. I think I might be .010 with 2-3 hunting ones, but most are .020-.025, wherever they are most accurate

 

[Walkalong]

Seating depth for bullets for hunting? Size to fit the mag, then forget about it.

 

[AJC1]

Touch is the worst place to be because any variation will give you off touch and jam in the same box of ammo. +-.005 is no man's land. Jam is not bad but it's a choice that leads to other factors. One would want sufficient neck tension in a jam senerio in a hunting rifle to prevent the big powder dump in the chamber. I'd want .003 interference fit on a bullet I intended to jam if you expect to get it out without problems. Do you have control of your interference fit and able to make those adjustments?

 

[quartermaster]

​

As I mentioned above
I used my homemade modified case to just see where they touched the lands And how far the bullet was going to be in the case. I never load to touch the lands, however I am very close with a couple of my target rifles. I think I might be .010 with 2-3 hunting ones, but most are .020-.025, wherever they are most accurate

 

[AJC1]

​

As I mentioned above
I used my homemade modified case to just see where they touched the lands And how far the bullet was going to be in the case. I never load to touch the lands, however I am very close with a couple of my target rifles. I think I might be .010 with 2-3 hunting ones, but most are .020-.025, wherever they are most accurate

I can't immage you make it very far through a berger seating depth test in that situation.... hopefully your bullet tunes easy...

 

[quartermaster]

The130 VLD hunting bullet heel is above the shoulder/neck junction. .010 jump is where it’s at now. Was shooting 3/4” groups yesterday, consistently. I figure if I use the 150 grain which would be seated deep in the body of the case, I will be sacrificing case volume, even if they shoot good, and I would not be happy with the velocity

 

[quartermaster]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

[Hugger-4641]

The130 VLD hunting bullet heel is above the shoulder/neck junction. .010 jump is where it’s at now. Was shooting 3/4” groups yesterday, consistently. I figure if I use the 150 grain which would be seated deep in the body of the case, I will be sacrificing case volume, even if they shoot good, and I would not be happy with the velocity

Your velocity should be fine if your charge is correct. Obviously the case volume will decrease with deeper seated bullet, but so does your max charge and velocity of 150gr vs 130gr.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Sounds like it’s time for you to buy a Hornady OAL gauge, comparator kit and .270 WSM modified case….

 

[Nature Boy]

I shot this yesterday as part of load development for a new barrel. Touch is 0.000, plus is into the lands, minus is jump.

Touch is the worst place to be

Touch was the best place to be

+-.005 is no man's land.

+0.005 just as good as touching

Jam is not bad

+0.020 jam was horrible

Bottom line: follow a process and let the data tell you where your load shoots best.

Allow confirmation bias and conventional wisdom ride in the back seat for a bit

And if it’s a hunting rifle mag length is your limit and tune around that.

 

[AJC1]

I shot this yesterday as part of load development for a new barrel. Touch is 0.000, plus is into the lands, minus is jump.

View attachment 1197871


Touch was the best place to be



+0.005 just as good as touching



+0.020 jam was horrible

Bottom line: follow a process and let the data tell you where your load shoots best.

Allow confirmation bias and conventional wisdom ride in the back seat for a bit

And if it’s a hunting rifle mag length is your limit and tune around that.

Can we just admit your not the average hand loader... more the exception than the rule...

When seating depth variation of greater than .010 being OK and acceptable discussed in a lot of threads some people are just in a diffrent class...

 

[kmw1954]

Can we just admit your not the average hand loader... more the exception than the rule...

When seating depth variation of greater than .010 being OK and acceptable discussed in a lot of threads some people are just in a diffrent class...

Maybe above average but an exception? I doubt it. Maybe the exception for this forum group.

The local league we run every winter is for 10 weeks is basically shooting at 0.5 MOA targets ranging from distances of 100 to 300yds. In this case comparing targets, the difference between shooting groups like the 0.020" and groups like the 0.010" could be the difference between being in 1st or 2nd place compared to 10th place. This year we had 22 members with 6 more waiting for someone to drop out.

In my case I struggle to shoot groups at the 0.020" size and I find myself in 13th place after nine weeks. But nearly everyone in this group runs this same ladder test.

 

[AJC1]

Maybe above average but an exception? I doubt it. Maybe the exception for this forum group.

The local league we run every winter is for 10 weeks is basically shooting at 0.5 MOA targets ranging from distances of 100 to 300yds. In this case comparing targets, the difference between shooting groups like the 0.020" and groups like the 0.010" could be the difference between being in 1st or 2nd place compared to 10th place. This year we had 22 members with 6 more waiting for someone to drop out.

In my case I struggle to shoot groups at the 0.020" size and I find myself in 13th place after nine weeks. But nearly everyone in this group runs this same ladder test.

He's a great shot no doubt, but I'm more referring to a sub group of reloaders who control their loads to tolerances of .001 in seating depth and shoulder bump. With all the great gear coming out maybe that group is growing much faster than I think. Tools like the Hornaday headspace guage and cbto tool is bringing knowledge of the game to the masses....
Everything in shooting is testing, and for every target that proves jam is bad another will say it's spot on.... I should have been more careful in my wording as the only thing I absolutely sure of is there is no certainty...

 

[Nature Boy]

Can we just admit you’re not the average hand loader.

I suppose so if we can also admit that hand loading your own ammo isn’t what the “average” guy does either.

Folks don’t have the same goals when it comes to reloading so defining what’s average is difficult. Hell, my goals change from firearm to firearm and the amount of work I put into load development follows suit. (i.e. I don’t do seating depth testing on a hunting repeater)

However, on “average” some the steps of load development are employed broadly across the hand loading community. In that sense I’m pretty average.

 

[ballman6711]

@Nature Boy I assume the orange dots are 1", which means your best groups are 1/4" or maybe a bit less. How far was that target, and do you move your target out farther and test again?

chris

 

[kmw1954]

Experiments are fun and educational. Let's shoot three more pages on three days.
Not knowing where your headed with this and not knowing how far you can shoot makes me wonder why. But I'm just a stranger

No idea who you are addressing this comment to so it really is meaningless.

 

[Walkalong]

Maybe above average but an exception? I doubt it. Maybe the exception for this forum group.

The local league we run every winter is for 10 weeks is basically shooting at 0.5 MOA targets ranging from distances of 100 to 300yds. In this case comparing targets, the difference between shooting groups like the 0.020" and groups like the 0.010" could be the difference between being in 1st or 2nd place compared to 10th place. This year we had 22 members with 6 more waiting for someone to drop out.

In my case I struggle to shoot groups at the 0.020" size and I find myself in 13th place after nine weeks. But nearly everyone in this group runs this same ladder test.

I lost an aggregate in a registered Benchrest match by .0012 once............ Sigh...

Can we just admit your not the average hand loader... more the exception than the rule...

I would agree with that, but there are a lot of people out there, and here, who do shoot at high level competitions. Not fun tournaments at the local range, but more serious stuff.

I don't load for the same purpose for PRS as I did for registered Benchrest matches where shooters from up to 10+ hours away came to compete. Hall of fame BR guys etc. My PRS guns shoot great, but it wouldn't win a Benchrest match of any consequence. @Nature Boy shoots F-Class at a high level, so he has to work hard at his loads, harder than I do for PRS.

@JFrank shoots 1K Benchrest, so he too must load to a very high level. Oh, and have high level equipment as well. Pretty danged good doesn't win there.

 

[Nature Boy]

@Nature Boy I assume the orange dots are 1", which means your best groups are 1/4" or maybe a bit less. How far was that target, and do you move your target out farther and test again?

chris

Let me definite the steps in the process as I’m only showing one of those steps here since seating depth was the subject. I do these in sequence.

1. Charge weight using the OCW method at 100.
2. Seating depth at 100 using the optional charge weight found in step one
3. Primer test at 100 to determine best primer brand/type
4. Validation of the results from steps 1-3 with a 20 shot group at 500 yards

 

[ballman6711]

Let me definite the steps in the process as I’m only showing one of those steps here since seating depth was the subject. I do these in sequence.

1. Charge weight using the OCW method at 100.
2. Seating depth at 100 using the optional charge weight found in step one
3. Primer test at 100 to determine best primer brand/type
4. Validation of the results from steps 1-3 with a 20 shot group at 500 yards

That's pretty amazing to someone like me. Great shooting by the way!

chris

 

[AJC1]

I lost an aggregate in a registered Benchrest match by .0012 once............ Sigh...

I would agree with that, but there are a lot of people out there, and here, who do shoot at high level competitions. Not fun tournaments at the local range, but more serious stuff.

I don't load for the same purpose for PRS as I did for registered Benchrest matches where shooters from up to 10+ hours away came to compete. Hall of fame BR guys etc. My PRS guns shoot great, but it wouldn't win a Benchrest match of any consequence. @Nature Boy shoots F-Class at a high level, so he has to work hard at his loads, harder than I do for PRS.

@JFrank shoots 1K Benchrest, so he too must load to a very high level. Oh, and have high level equipment as well. Pretty danged good doesn't win there.

Oh I totally respect all three of you... I didn't know jfranks discipline....I knew better than to bet against him

 

[Howa 9700]

Would love to have some guys of equal shooting ability do the trigger work on my reloads so I could eliminate my biggest wild card variable to good load development. That would be me. I could have a rifle and load combination capable of true one hole groups and I'd never know it. I'm not that good.

But as to OP's dilemma, not being familiar with the 270 WSM, I took a glance at the Lyman's 50th and they do suggest the need to load some bullets deep into the case, just to make them fit. As such, with a 1:10 twist, not sure those high BC bullets like VLD is the right bullet for that rifle. I found a very nice load with a 130 gr Interlock for the 270 Win I was loading for. Somewhere around here is a box of 140 grain Nosler Partitions, which seems like a much better hunting bullet fit to your rifle than those long, sleek torpedoes.

 

[Walkalong]

Would love to have some guys of equal shooting ability do the trigger work on my reloads so I could eliminate my biggest wild card variable to good load development.

It simply takes time and experience/practice.

I had been shooting very accurate Varmint guns for some time before I first started BR shooting. I struggled at first as far as being able to tell if it was me or the load or the rifle or.....because it was a whole new level of accuracy. Wind flags and a gun capable of putting the bullets through the same whole was an eye opening experience for me. Sure, I knew the bullets were affected by wind, but had no idea how to read the wind etc., and with wind flags there is so much info to digest, plus not make gun errors, plus know your load isn't holding you back. More experienced shooters were very helpful, and in time I learned how to work up a load, and be able to tell if it was me, or the load, or something was off with the rifle or scope.

It just takes practice, and focus. It is very difficult to prevail at that level, but that's what's fun about it, like in the movie A League of Their Own......it's the hard that makes it great.