Buying a Smith with a Lock Hole?

[AzShooter1]

The lock never bothered me. I have hundreds of thousands of rounds though my Clintonian Smiths and the lock has never set itself on any of my guns.

Originally I bought into the hype and took out the lock. Didn't improve anything so I just leave them in my new guns now. Of course I do a lot of other work to my guns but the lock is no problem.

 

[westernrover]

I wonder what age a kid can pull a 14lb trigger ? Are they smart and mature enough not to pull the trigger when they are 12 ?
It makes no sense , what about all of the M&P pistols , shouldn’t they have a lock , or do they consider that someone has to rack the slide and a small kid can’t do that , so if it were racked , it’s not on them .

There is no good rationalization for the lock. I only offered the rationale for the no-lock models. If I explained why some models have a lock, I didn't intend for it to "make sense" or to justify the locks because they don't make sense and aren't justified. I believe the only reason they exist is because the guy who bought S&W and has run it since had the idea and sees it as his personal legacy.

Children who accidentally shoot themselves with unsecured revolvers typically point the gun at themselves and then tragically actuate the trigger using TWO thumbs. Households with vulnerable people must secure firearms. I would not hang my hopes on a tiny internal lock by any stretch of the imagination.

Agree. The notion that the internal lock is even a part of adequate security is absurd. It's equally absurd to think that a Centennial's double-action trigger is adequate to secure a loaded gun. I am convinced that is the rationale, not that it makes sense or that any hope should be placed in it.

For $50 or so you can get the plug for the hole. Find a competent gunsmith and another $50 and you now have a lock-less gun.

It doesn't take a gunsmith to install the plug. It can be done with the correct screwdriver and modest screwdriver operator skills.

Have you bypassed the lock with a paperclip or screwdriver?

With a screwdriver. It's conceivable to do it with a paperclip, but I think an earnest attempt to do so would result in a high probability of scratching the frame and I'm not willing to do that to prove the point.

I'll reiterate that my opinion is that the lock, however irrational, ugly, or useless it is, does not destroy the value of S&W revolvers. Rampant, major quality issues do very seriously erode their value. I carry S&W revolvers with the lock and depend on them as much as I would on any handgun. I think the locks will disappear with Robert Scott. Until then, I don't let them bother me. On the other hand, it's hard not to be bothered by the quality issues I've suffered with S&W revolvers.

 

[jar]

If I had a choice of two S&W handguns, identical in every way except one had the internal lock and the other did not, I would always choose the one with the internal lock.

 

[orionengnr]

"The lock looks just fine, and is an important safety feature."
Horse manure.

"I’ll wager these internal locks have saved more than few kids from accidently harming themselves. If it means harm reduction, by all means I have ZERO issues with these locks.'

Show me some evidence of this. I'll wager there is none, because this is pure BS.

--Nobody actually uses The Lock.
--Nearly everyone dislikes it, at least in principle.

I have two S&W revolvers with The Lock, and both of them have been removed and replaced with The Plug. See the SWForum.com if you want to buy one. About $20, and 15 minutes worth of work, and no more Lock.

 

[red rick]

If y’all would quit buying them , the lock would probably go away .

 

[fxvr5]

--Nobody actually uses The Lock.

Wow, how do you come by this omniscient power to know what every gun owner has done? It must be amazing.

By the way, call me Nobody. I have used the lock. I guess that turn your claim into BS.

 

[Rodfac]

I've owned S&W revolvers since the early 70's, without checking the list, I'd estimate two dozen at least. Of that number, 4 have the IL (M-60, M-63, M-629 M-637) and I've had no trouble with it on any of them. I shoot a lot and again without checking each's round count/loading sheet, I'd say that I have more than 1000 rounds through each of them. No problems.

As to S&W's QC, I agree it has deteriorated over the years, but for those of you yearning for the good old days, some of the Bango Punta years were problematic as well. In my experience, it was finish quality, not mechanical reliability that suffered. Recently, I sent a M-63 back that had its cylinder lock up after a dozen rounds...new gun too. Smith fixed it, corrected the uneven cylinder face/forcing cone gap and did a trigger job on it. It was gone for 3 months but they did the work and shipping on their dime.

I still like the guns, at least some of them, and hope for the future...a lock free future would be nice...but after a cpl months, I don't even notice it on my guns.

YMMv Rod

 

[cfullgraf]

I owned an S&W 640, 5" 460 Magnum, and an 8 3/8" 460 Magnum. I carried one of the lock keys on my keychain in case of emergencies. I never had to use it.

Probably a good idea have a key on hand if using a S&W revolver with the lock.

 

[The Happy Kaboomer]

After S&W capitulated to the Clinton admin and started putting locks on their revolvers I lost interest in the company. They have some nice looking guns but that hole was always a deal breaker. Recently a friend let me try the trigger on his 637 (with hole) and I was very impressed. The DA trigger was smooth as butter and the break was shear glass. He told me later on he was looking to sell it and would give a good deal if I wanted to buy it.

How big of a deal, really, is the internal lock? Aside from the political implications of it, has anyone had any mechanical issues related to the hole? Or any issues stemming from plugging it?

Smith didn't fold to the clinton admin.. A company bought S&W that had patent rights to the "safety hammer". Therefore they started installing their patented safety hammer into all S&W's........The safety hammer is easily deleted(removed) and the hole is filled with a plug,.

 

[JohnKSa]

Let's not try to rewrite history.

Smith didn't fold to the clinton admin..

The CEO of S&W at the time admits he made a deal with the Clinton Administration to add the locks.

https://www.masslive.com/news/2021/...ent-bill-clinton-drove-him-from-business.html

Shultz hammered out an agreement with President Bill Clinton’s administration: Drop the suits and Smith & Wesson would include locks on its handguns; implement “smart gun” technology; create a system of authorized dealers nationwide to do background checks; and end “straw” purchases, where someone can fraudulently buy a gun on behalf of people barred from owning guns.

“I don’t regret it,” Shultz said in an interview earlier this year. “At one point, both sides were genuinely trying to come to some agreement.”

The White House announced it made a deal with S&W:

https://clintonwhitehouse4.archives.gov/WH/New/html/20000317_2.html

• Today, President Clinton will highlight an historic agreement with Smith and Wesson to build on his comprehensive efforts to reduce gun violence in America. The agreement represents an unprecedented partnership between the government and the gun industry to bring about meaningful reforms in the way the industry does business.

...

• Locking devices. Safety locking devices will be required for handguns and pistols, external locking devices within 60 days and internal locking devices within 24 months.

A company bought S&W that had patent rights to the "safety hammer". Therefore they started installing their patented safety hammer into all S&W's........

The deal with the Clinton Administration was announced in 2000. Saf-T-Hammer bought S&W a year later in 2001

https://www.bloomberg.com/press-rel...-corp-acquires-gun-maker-smith-wesson-firearm

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 14, 2001--Saf-T-Hammer Corp. (OTC BB:SAFH), the Scottsdale-based firearm safety and security company today announced that it has purchased Smith & Wesson Corp. from Tomkins Corp., a subsidiary of U.K.-based Tomkins PLC (NYSE:TKS), for $15 million. Smith & Wesson has total assets of $97 million and total liabilities of $53 million.

 

[JERRY]

I have two locked S&W revolvers, both were bought used. I'd never buy one new.

One has the lock removed, the other will have this done also before use for self defense.

 

[stonebuster]

I bought a well worn Model 10-14 NY DOC trade in w/lock for $330 and an excellent very lightly used Model 64-8 LE trade in for $300 OTD. I've had both of them for a couple years and no issues with either after many hundreds of rounds with both. I'd rather the lock not be there but for the money spent, they're good shooters. I don't like the Ruger manual written on the barrel of my Ruger revolvers either but it doesn't stop me from buying them.

 

[buck460XVR]

I get a huge kick out of folks claiming the "hole" is so aesthetically unpleasing they would never buy a newer S&W. Yet they have no problem with huge obnoxious rollmarks and screwholes in their high price semi-custom grips.

 

[Jonesy814]

I have a 638 that I have shot easily 3,000 rounds from. Never had a problem with the lock

 

[jar]

My pocket gun today is my Annoying Cricket, a Taurus PT22 Poly with Taurus version of a lock. I also have a Taurus ProtectorPoly 357 with their lock and carry the key for those with my other keys even when not carrying the handgun.

 

[Eugen]

I dont know much about S&W revolvers and even less about a 'lock'. I have an inherited 1955 5 screw K 22 and only a few months ago bought a S&W 360PD. I got it from a local gunshow and it was in LNIB condition. After i got it home and examined it thoroughly i noticed that strange little thing (the lock) and then read about it in the owner's manual. Out of curiosity i locked it to see if it worked, and then unlocked it. ...and forgot about.

That is until i read through this thread. Golly this lock is certainly controversial.

Thanks for the back story and education regarding everyone's experience and opinion on this thing. I think i will go back to forgetting about it.

 

[Dframe]

I bought a new Model 21 (44 special) that had a lock many years ago. I decided to just shoot it until I had a problem. Many years and many thousands of rounds later I decided the fuss about it was a tempest in a Teapot. Oh. The key is still in the box, has never been used and never will be.

 

[tallpaul]

I’ve owned 4 with the Lock hole. All needed trigger jobs. One of the 629s I had locked up twice. It went down the road along with another. If I ever purchase anymore S&W revolvers they will be old ones.

most factory guns could ude an actionjob/tuning for serious target work. Some guys do not appreciate or understand tha value of that upgrade- on revolver or semi auto. I grew up shooting bullseye in the eighties, shooting and it was a common upgrade then and is often now if ya know...

 

[Steve Milbocker]

All my old Smiths have fabulous triggers. I was just shocked and disappointed that the new ones didn’t.

 

[trackskippy]

I have both new and old S&W's, and I cant say I really see a difference in the triggers. They all seem pretty good.