Can a full auto be gifted down to you from a relative when they pass away?

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If you wanted to stay legal but not destroy the gun, it could be as simple as taking apart the gun, taking out the auto sear and then riveting the axis hole shut. This way , the gun is technically not a machine gun anymore (you can keep the auto sear too)
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If this is legal, this is absolutely the way to go.
 
If you wanted to stay legal but not destroy the gun, it could be as simple as taking apart the gun, taking out the auto sear and then riveting the axis hole shut. This way , the gun is technically not a machine gun anymore (you can keep the auto sear too)
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NO. IT CAN NOT BE THAT SIMPLE.

Once a gun is a machine gun, it is always a machine gun, according to the ATF. Even if you were to mill away the portion of the gun that held the auto sear, it would still be a machine gun, still be illegal contraband, and still worth 10 years in federal prison.

(This is the reason military surplus M-14s cannot be sold as converted to semi-autos, even with the switch mounting location completely removed.)

The only way it would be legal would be if the auto-sear WAS the registered machine gun and the rest of the gun was simply a "host" Title I semi. But that would be dependent on the gun type, and would, or course, require that the sear had been registered in the first place, rendering the question moot.
 
Originally Posted by Vector
If a gang banger uses a full auto in a drive by shooting, are all those charges brought against him to where he spends 40 years in jail?
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Chances are that they might not even be charged with a federal NFA violation at all, since the tougher penalty would likely come down from the state murder (or attempted murder/ assault 1 charges) that they would be facing. And, it is also important to remember, that in most instances, the Federal Sentencing Guidelines call for SIGNIFICANTLY less time than the maximums that we love to cite. I believe that there is a federal sentence enhancer for use of a machine gun or semi-automatic assault (separate from the general sentence enhancers from general firearm possession/ use in the commission of a federal felony) weapon in the commission of certain federal crimes (that are drug/ violence related) IIRC...I would have to look up the guidelines to be certain, however.
 
If'n these NFA laws are so blatantly unconstitutional why don't we get on the NRA or another RTKBA org to fight the laws?
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The NRA was involved in getting these laws passed in the first place, participating in the process. Their role is to be the "Judas Goat", by claiming to soften the blow. In reality they calm down gun owners, and give politicians an out when they say "The NRA approved this legislation."
They will do nothing to repeal these laws.
 
The NRA was involved in getting these laws passed in the first place, participating in the process. Their role is to be the "Judas Goat", by claiming to soften the blow. In reality they calm down gun owners, and give politicians an out when they say "The NRA approved this legislation."
They will do nothing to repeal these laws.
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Oh good grief. Do a bit of research on what actually happened in 1986 before making these kind of statements. And on what FOPA '86 did RIGHT.

Anyone who says the NRA exists to calm down and mollify gun owners needs to hook up with all those who scream that they exist only to stir up unreasonable passions (UN gun-ban anyone?) and maybe try to find the calm center where the nuggets of truth lie.
 
The NRA was involved in getting these laws passed in the first place, participating in the process.
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That's like saying MacArthur was responsible for WWII because he participated in the process.

The NRA in 1934 was NOT a lobbying organization and had no political arm at all. The original NFA was going to include hanguns too, and the efforts of the NRA got them removed from the legislation. If they had not "participated in the process" you'd be filling out Form 4's to buy a handgun.

If you are going to tell stories, dishonesty is not going to cut it. Tell the whole story or don't open the door.
 
NJ does have a procedure for just such a transfer. Doubt many ever took place.

SUBCHAPTER 5. MACHINE GUNS, ASSAULT FIREARMS AND LARGE CAPACITY
AMMUNITION MAGAZINES

N.J.A.C. 13:54-5.1 Purchase or sale of assault firearms and machine guns (a) Except as provided in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6, no person shall possess a machine gun without first
having obtained a license in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. Except as provided in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6, no person shall possess an assault firearm without first having obtained a license
in accordance with the provisions of this chapter, registered the assault firearm pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-12, or rendered the assault firearm inoperable pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-13.

(b) Any licensed dealer in firearms who sells or otherwise transfers a machine gun or an assault firearm shall confirm both the identity of the purchaser, and in the case of a licensee, the validity
of the license. A machine gun or assault firearm shall be delivered unloaded and securely wrapped.

(c) A licensed dealer who accepts an assault firearm and/or machine gun from a private citizen for transfer, resale or repair shall, within 48 hours of such acquisition, notify the Superintendent. Such
dealer shall maintain possession of the assault firearm and/or machine gun, until he or she receives permission from the Superintendent to proceed with the transfer, resale or repair of the weapon.
Failure by the dealer to comply with this requirement may result in the revocation of the license or registration of such dealer.

(d) In addition to the permanent records of receipt or disposition of firearms required by this chapter to be maintained by a wholesale or resale dealer, such dealers shall keep and maintain a
separate ledger for the acquisition or receipt and sale or disposition of machine guns and assault firearms. This ledger shall be in the same form and contain the same information as provided for in
N.J.A.C. 13:54-3.13, 3.14 and 3.15 and N.J.A.C. 13:54-4.12.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-5.2 License to purchase, possess or carry a machine gun or assault firearm

(a) Licenses to purchase, possess or carry a machine gun or assault firearm shall be issued by a judge of the Superior Court in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:58-5. The application for such license shall be referred to the county prosecutor for investigation, recommendation and preparation of a report.

(b) The report of the county prosecutor shall be served upon the Superintendent and the chief of police of every municipality in which the applicant intends to carry the machine gun or assault
firearm. The Superintendent and/or the chief of police, or their designees, may personally appear and oppose the issuance of any license to acquire a machine gun or assault firearm. If the court
issues a license, the Superintendent and/or chief of police, or their designees, may appeal that decision in accordance with the Rules of Court.

(c) Upon issuance of a license by a court, a true copy of such license shall be filed with the Superintendent and chief of police of the municipality where the licensee resides or has his place
of business.

(d) At any time, the Superintendent, a chief of police, any law enforcement officer of this State or any other citizen may apply to the court which issued the license for revocation on the ground that
the licensee is no longer qualified to possess such license by virtue of his inability to satisfy the statutory requirements of N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4 and 2C:58-5, or if revocation is necessary in order to
protect the public safety and welfare.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-5.3 Disposition of machine gun or assault firearm upon death of licensee or registered holder(a)

If the holder of a license to purchase, possess or carry a machine gun or assault firearm dies, or if the owner of an assault firearm, which has been registered pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-12 dies,
then the heirs or estate of the deceased person shall have 90 days from the date of death to transfer the firearm to a licensed dealer or person or firm lawfully entitled to own or possess such firearm;
voluntarily surrender the firearm pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12; or, only in the case of an assault firearm, render the firearm inoperable pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:58-13.
In the event that the heir or legatee of the assault firearm does not qualify for a firearms purchaser identification card or a permit to purchase a handgun, he or she must immediately transfer
possession of such firearm to the chief law enforcement officer of the municipality or the Superintendent during such 90-day period.

(b) For purposes of this section, "inoperable" shall mean that the firearm is altered in such a manner that it cannot be immediately fired and that the owner or possessor of the firearm does not
possess or have control over the parts necessary to make the firearm operable. In the event that the firearm is rendered inoperable, the heir or estate shall file a certification on the form prescribed by
the Superintendent, indicating the date on which the firearm was rendered inoperable. The certification shall be filed with either the chief of police of the municipality in which the heir
resides, or if the municipality does not have a full time police department, or if the owner resides outside of this State, with the Superintendent.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-5.4 Notification of ineligibility to possess assault firearm or machine gun

Any person having knowledge that a person is subject to any of the disabilities which would render such person ineligible to procure a license to purchase, possess or carry a machine gun or
assault firearm, or to continue to be registered as an owner of an assault firearm, may notify the appropriate chief of police or the Superintendent, who may take such action as may be deemed
appropriate.
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As mentioned above, the gun would have to have been registered, either before the amnesty and a tax paid, or during the amnesty. Also, you would have to be in a state where you can own a full auto firearm. Illinois is not one of those states but that is not the issue here.

A local dealer a few years ago sold an heirloom full auto to an BATFE agent during a sting and he did three years.
 
Seems like I have read on several other forums that there is still a way to register war trophies even after the 68 amnesty period. Depending on the value of the firearm, you should contact a good Attorney or an old, experienced class 3 dealer and thoroughly investigate before taking any action.
 
glassmountains, welcome aboard, but there is not a way to register a war trophy, the BATFEIEIO is pretty silly about these dangerous machineguns, even though they've obviously been completely safe to the public for decades (hell, a WW1 trophy would be approaching a century!).
 
There is nothing you can do to legalize a piece that was not registered pre 1986-nothing.

Some guys are posting delusional stuff.
Even DEWATS are controlled items.

I began collecting in the late 50s-there were LOTS of MP 40s, Thompsons, Nambu MGs, etc about that vets had.
Gunshow parking lots were like carnival sideshows.

Over the years 99% passed out of their hands.
Some got registered in 68, many just "disappeared."

Today the idea of fooling around with an unregistered piece is just stupid.

I had an unregistered piece at home when I went in the Army.
I spent 68 69 and 70 in RVN and missed the amnesty.

I contacted the ATF through a friend and his boss basically said "No dice, lose it."
 
At the time, if you could prove you were out of the country during the amnesty period you were allowed to register the weapon upon your return. I know this for a fact.
 
I can't believe you would even ask or post such a topic. Eyes are watching this site lol!
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Nothing wrong with asking a question. The laws are somewhat complicated and generally nonsensical. No shame in needing it all explained. He's gotten good info on how to avoid trouble.

Its up to him to choose wisely.
 
Don't want to derail the thread, but can't they be rolled into a trust and then the new owner named the trustee?
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If they are not registered, then no. They aren't transferable to a trust or an individual.

The trust route does not get around the requirement that any NFA item must be registered either; a)in the original compliance period, b) in the later amnesty period, or c) by a manufacturer immediately upon being built.

If it is unregistered then it is illegal, and cannot be made legal.
 
Sam,my point is as follows.
1.NEVER devulge what the family has or will have.
2.That man served his country,he earned what he has accummilated.
3.Someone needs to keep their pie hole shut!
4.What's in the family,STAYS in the family with-out every freakn individual knowing about it.
5.Take this info as you wish.
 
Patriot, I see your point, and I believe that all should be as you say. Unfortunately, the laws of our country do not agree with that view, and the consequences of running afoul of those laws would rob an otherwise honest and law-abiding person of all the rights and freedoms his forefathers had fought to give him/her.

"Keeping your pie hole shut," is a path fraught with disaster. Even if you want to own a secret that you must keep religiously and never, EVER, take out and enjoy, the practicality of that in the OP's situation is absolutely nil.

As Benjamin Franklin once opined, "Three can keep a secret -- if two are dead."

No one is living a very free life if they or their loved ones are one mis-step (house fire, burglary, overly curious home repairman, etc.) away from spending 10 years in federal prison, and losing their right to bear arms ... and wife, home, friendships, job, etc.
 
I have to ask after reading much of this - this is abridgment pure and simple. Any - repeat ANY restriction on ownership is abridgment - and therefore unconstitutional.

And that is my opinion and how i read the document under which our country is governed - for the most part.... damn shame to have to put that in there.

Z
 
LMFAO! Laws are to be followed yes but. "Take out and enjoy"!!!! That type of weapon is a tool. To protect and save a family. You people think these weapons are toys and or a game. Grow up sheeple,learn what weapons are made for.
 
LMFAO! Laws are to be followed yes but. "Take out and enjoy"!!!! That type of weapon is a tool. To protect and save a family.
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Patriot,

Using an automatic firearm to protect and save your family is going to be problematic. They require well more training and practice to use safely AND effectively than many more common weapons. The idea that a M3 "Grease Gun" or an M1 Thompson (or any of the other submachine guns common in the Korean war) would be more effective for defending one's home and family than would a 12 ga. pump shotgun or a service auto pistol is pretty questionable. IF you have the skills to use it well, it could be very effective. If you are equally skilled with other, more common types of weapons, then a sub-gun wouldn't be vastly MORE effective in that role -- and might be noticeably worse.

That is the educated opinion of someone more than adequately experienced with such weapons platforms.

(AND, that's assuming that we're discussing a submachine gun, and not something belt-fed and crew-served, which would be slightly LESS useful than a good, sharp FORK for home defense. The OP didn't say.)

Now, let's look at this from a legal perspective. If your home is invaded and you grab your super-secret M3, that grandpappy snuck home from Korea, and that you have not been able to practice with just about EVER for fear of discovery -- have you successfully defended your family from danger when the ATF puts you in federal prison for 10 years, you lose your job, lose up to $250,000 in fines, lose your home, lose your marriage and relationship with your children, family, and friends, and lose your rights to own arms for the rest of your life?

Around here, we contemplate a MUCH deeper understanding of successful self/home defense that encompasses being able to LIVE to enjoy the rest of your life, not merely to survive the moment of the encounter.

You people think these weapons are toys and or a game. Grow up sheeple,learn what weapons are made for.
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I'm not exactly sure who these "you people" are, but you might want to spend a lot more time getting to know this forum before you cast too many aspersions. There is lots of good information here from folks who've spent lifetimes studying such issues. But we don't suffer fools or "Rambo" types very well. You certainly don't want to come across as that through overheated rhetoric.
 
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