Can a lease agreement prohibit gun possession?
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Brad Johnson
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So anything is okay as long as you get away with it?
Brad
blackcash88
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Pretty much. One apartment complex I lived in forbade overnight guests. Uh, yeah, try telling THAT to a horny, young Navy flight student in Corpus Christi bringing God knows what home from Booters. 
No.
It's okay whether or not you get away with it.
Some things are morally wrong. However, possessing a firearm harms nobody. It's not wrong. Sometimes, it can get you into trouble, and you may choose to follow a law or rule, because it's not worth the cost to you. I doubt anyone here thinks it's morally wrong to have a gun in your pocket if you don't hurt anyone, but most of us won't do it without a permit because we don't want to deal with the consequences of being caught carrying illegally.
As far as the lease is concerned, consider the consequences and the likelihood of there being any. Decide what the risk is, and whether you are willing to accept it. The landlord is doing the same thing; he has no moral investment in the lease agreement, either.
It's hard to live a life with any degree of peace and liberty, if you don't bother separating out the real stuff from the bull****. So much in our society is left unsaid; you have to sort out what really matters.
Follow your moral code when it comes to any act that actually has an impact on another person (or yourself).
It's okay whether or not you get away with it.
Some things are morally wrong. However, possessing a firearm harms nobody. It's not wrong. Sometimes, it can get you into trouble, and you may choose to follow a law or rule, because it's not worth the cost to you. I doubt anyone here thinks it's morally wrong to have a gun in your pocket if you don't hurt anyone, but most of us won't do it without a permit because we don't want to deal with the consequences of being caught carrying illegally.
As far as the lease is concerned, consider the consequences and the likelihood of there being any. Decide what the risk is, and whether you are willing to accept it. The landlord is doing the same thing; he has no moral investment in the lease agreement, either.
It's hard to live a life with any degree of peace and liberty, if you don't bother separating out the real stuff from the bull****. So much in our society is left unsaid; you have to sort out what really matters.
Follow your moral code when it comes to any act that actually has an impact on another person (or yourself).
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TwitchALot
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ArmedBear said:
Is making an agreement (a signed contract in this case, mind you) and then not following through with your end of the bargain wrong?
im not a lawyer but i would think that the home is the private property of the person you lease it from and that they have the right to ban anything that they want to as long as its in the lease that you read and signed.
i see the arguement that once you sign the lease it becomes your domicile however you signed a leagelly binding contract that specificaly prohibited guns. if i were you id look for a loophole out of the lease and move.
i see the arguement that once you sign the lease it becomes your domicile however you signed a leagelly binding contract that specificaly prohibited guns. if i were you id look for a loophole out of the lease and move.
Autolycus
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So I take it you are for the legalization of drugs? If my meth lab harms nobody then it should be ok right?
Brad Johnson
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brickeyee said:
Trying to change the topic instead of answering the question is what politicians do when they get caught in a corner.
I'll ask again.
So, anything is okay as long as you get away with it?
Brad
blackcash88
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In this case, yes.
Autolycus
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Well so long as it does not harm anyone, right Armedbear?
It depends...
On the state of contract law in your State.
Yes, you can sign away any rights you want to, but in many jurisdictions, your signing does not create any legal obligations. For example, in many states (California is one), a "hold harmless" clause is completely unenforceable. You can sign it, and if you suffer a loss, and sue, your case cannot be dismissed simply because you signed a "will not sue" clause.
Many other examples exist. For example, I'm certain that there are jurisdictions where a provision restricting the signor's right of free speech is unenforceable. Remember that contracts are purely a creation of the law, so the law can place whatever conditions that the lawmakers want on the terms of such contracts.
In any case, if you're really concerned about it, contact an attorney in your state. Preferably one who specializes in real estate law. If he or she is knowledgeable about firearms laws in your State, so much the better.
Bottom line, you need specific legal advice from a licensed attorney, not a bunch of speculation from 'da intertubes.
--Shannon
On the state of contract law in your State.
Yes, you can sign away any rights you want to, but in many jurisdictions, your signing does not create any legal obligations. For example, in many states (California is one), a "hold harmless" clause is completely unenforceable. You can sign it, and if you suffer a loss, and sue, your case cannot be dismissed simply because you signed a "will not sue" clause.
Many other examples exist. For example, I'm certain that there are jurisdictions where a provision restricting the signor's right of free speech is unenforceable. Remember that contracts are purely a creation of the law, so the law can place whatever conditions that the lawmakers want on the terms of such contracts.
In any case, if you're really concerned about it, contact an attorney in your state. Preferably one who specializes in real estate law. If he or she is knowledgeable about firearms laws in your State, so much the better.
Bottom line, you need specific legal advice from a licensed attorney, not a bunch of speculation from 'da intertubes.
--Shannon
Master Blaster
Member
They put it in you agreed to it, unless there is a law that says its unenforceable they landlord can enforce it and file for eviction.
Once you wind up in court in front of a judge for any eviction proceeding, he's going to be looking for an equitable arraingement, usually that would be payment of rent, payment for damages etc. So most likely the judge will ask you to remove your firearms as a condition of occupancy. He will also ask the landlord if you have destroyed anything with them or created a nusience, and if the answer is no, he may suggest to the Landlord the lease be modified.
But if the land lord insists on eviction and you refuse to remove the firearms, you will be evicted.
I would ignore the clause and be a good tenant for the term of the lease, when renewal comes up, cross out the offending clause, before you sign the lease. If you have been a good tenant, and paid rent in full on time most likely the landlord will agree.
I owned 6 rental properties for about 12 years and my concern was no damage, rent on time, and consideration for the other tenants.
I was always happy to have a good tenant renew, since it meant I didnt have to paint, advertise, show, and take a chance with an unknown new tenant.
JMHO YMMV
Once you wind up in court in front of a judge for any eviction proceeding, he's going to be looking for an equitable arraingement, usually that would be payment of rent, payment for damages etc. So most likely the judge will ask you to remove your firearms as a condition of occupancy. He will also ask the landlord if you have destroyed anything with them or created a nusience, and if the answer is no, he may suggest to the Landlord the lease be modified.
But if the land lord insists on eviction and you refuse to remove the firearms, you will be evicted.
I would ignore the clause and be a good tenant for the term of the lease, when renewal comes up, cross out the offending clause, before you sign the lease. If you have been a good tenant, and paid rent in full on time most likely the landlord will agree.
I owned 6 rental properties for about 12 years and my concern was no damage, rent on time, and consideration for the other tenants.
I was always happy to have a good tenant renew, since it meant I didnt have to paint, advertise, show, and take a chance with an unknown new tenant.
JMHO YMMV
It's on that they put it on there when it is not customary in your area. But if you are signing the lease, you are agreeing to be bound by the covenant. You could negotiate with them, but I doubt they would be willing to; they put it in there in the first place. All they can do is evict you, but I doubt they would, even if they somehow found out. All you have to do is be just smart enough to not let them find out, considering they aren't looking for a gun, it shouldnt be too hard.
I belive the Constitution can and would be considered a Federal regulation:
..The right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
That said, if the landlord can violate your 2nd Amdnt. rights, then could they not also place a clause in the lease staing that you must allow people in the military to stay with you for free? (Third Amndt) or even better a clause stating that you cannot petition your congressman from your apartment (1st Amndt)?
Just because a clause is in a signed contract does not make it enforceable. Clauses or stipulations in a contract that are illegal at signing are inherently unenforceable, such as a clause that might state that the lesee agrees to force his/her 12 year old child to have sex with the lessor.
Just cross the illegal offending clause from the contract, get initials, then sign. Who in thier right mind would waive thier right to self defense?
RNB65
Member
My advice: If you like the place, sign the lease, pay your rent on time, don't make enough noise to upset the neighbors, and ignore the clause. Keep your guns hidden in a lockable cabinet where they can't be seen. The worst that can happen is you get evicted if they discover you're violating the lease. Big deal.
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Cosmoline
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Unless there's a particular code in your state outlawing these provisions they're enforceable. But not too many landlords go to FED proceedings on paying, quiet tenants. You take your chances of course, but violating idiotic lease terms like this isn't immoral. It's annoying having to act like a criminal and sneak your iron around though so I'd suggest planning on a move when you get a chance.
We're talking about breaking a lease term, not a law. Contracts are violated all the time for good and bad reasons. In this case I can think of many good reasons for violating this idiotic provision. I'm sure I have violated similar provisions over the years. I won't lose any sleep over it. Esp. considering some of the worthless freaks I've had as landlords!
Understand that there are many of your group who richly deserve a few efficient breaches as we lawyers like to call them.
We're talking about breaking a lease term, not a law. Contracts are violated all the time for good and bad reasons. In this case I can think of many good reasons for violating this idiotic provision. I'm sure I have violated similar provisions over the years. I won't lose any sleep over it. Esp. considering some of the worthless freaks I've had as landlords!
Understand that there are many of your group who richly deserve a few efficient breaches as we lawyers like to call them.
AirForceShooter
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How would your Landlord ever know??
AFS
AFS
357WheelGun
Member
First of all, the Constitution limits what the Government can do. It does NOT limit what a person can do with his own property.
The lease is an agreement by the landlord to allow you to occupy his property pursuant to the terms specified in the lease provided such terms are enforceable per current legal statutes. The lease terms do not prohibit the lessee's ownership of firearms; they merely prohibit the keeping of those arms on property that belongs to the landlord.
A lease absolutely could specify that the landlord can choose to board soldiers in your unit with no remuneration to you because the unit is the landlord's property and he can do as he pleases with it. A lease can also specify that you cannot engage in political activity within the landlord's property, in fact, some leases do prohibit placing signs for candidates on the property or in the windows of the unit.
What people fail to realise is that an apartment does not belong to the lessee. The apartment is the property of the lessor and as such, the lessor's right to restrict access to his property as he sees fit trumps anything else unless specifically exempted in the applicable legal code. The lessee remains free to engage in prohibited activities as long as the lessee is not on the lessor's property.
X-Rap
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I look at it from a Libertarian view, if someone owns property and others want to rent the owner should have his right to make what ever regulation he chooses. This would include lifestyle, permisible activities, race, pets, kids, number of adults, you name it including firearms.The other side of the equation is no one is forcing anyone to sign a lease. The same should go for the sale of property, if its to restrictive don't buy, if nobody buys the regulations will relax.
I feel the same regarding employment.
I feel the same regarding employment.
Blackbeard
Member
Just because he can evict you doesn't mean he will. If you pay rent on time, don't damage the unit and don't cause him any headaches, he's got no reason to evict you.
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