Yoda
Member
I'm leaving for California in about 48 hours. Should I take a 1911 and a hip holster along for open carry, or does that open-carry-while-unloaded thing only apply to California residents?
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Can an out-of-stater open carry (unloaded) in California?
- Thread starter Yoda
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You can do that legally, same as a resident, with all the restrictions. Look up California firearms laws and see whether or not you can decipher them. Good luck.
There is a huge problem: if you screw up somehow and do something illegal (not hard to do given the laws), your gun won't be registered in California. While you aren't required to register your gun in California in order to carry or shoot it legally, if you DO run afoul of the laws about carrying concealed (which encompass more than you'd think), the charge will be a felony instead of a misdemeanor with a non-CA-registered gun.
Be careful!
There is a huge problem: if you screw up somehow and do something illegal (not hard to do given the laws), your gun won't be registered in California. While you aren't required to register your gun in California in order to carry or shoot it legally, if you DO run afoul of the laws about carrying concealed (which encompass more than you'd think), the charge will be a felony instead of a misdemeanor with a non-CA-registered gun.
Be careful!
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And remember that even though unloaded open carry is legal, under California law you have to stay at least 1000 feet from any school. In an urban or suburban area that can be quite a trick -- with all the public, private, church, and pre-schools you'll find in those areas. In the small suburban/agricultural community I live in, I'd have a tough time traveling the 3 miles between my house and our little downtown staying 1000 feet from all the schools between here and there.
ambidextrous1
Member
As a California escapee, I'd say it's not worth the risk. as an out-of-towner, you don't know where the schools are. What good is an unloaded firearm, anyway? I'm subject to correction here, but if you have a semi-auto on your hip and a loaded magazine on your person, some jurisdictions may consider that to be a loaded firearm. I hope others will comment if I'm wrong on this.
Not true UNLESS the gun is concealed. But... the definition of "not concealed" is "carried openly in a belt holster."
What's "openly" exactly? You guess! It's not defined.
If you want really good information, go here: http://www.calguns.net/
THR threads about California typically end up full of frivolous BS at best, and misinformation at worst.
Nope, that's not a problem. Another problem, however, is that police will be responding to "man with gun" calls and will stop you from time to time to verify that the gun in fact is unloaded.ambidextrous1 said:
And I agree that carrying an unloaded gun, even with a loaded magazine handy, isn't terribly useful. A lot of time bad things are going to happen too quickly to be able to put the gun to proper use.
Yoda
Member
Hummm...
Well, maybe I could just walk around with the empty holster, JFTHOT.
- - - Yoda
Well, maybe I could just walk around with the empty holster, JFTHOT.
- - - Yoda
No, in this context having a loaded magazine is not a loaded gun (PC 12031.)
However having a concealed loaded magazine while having an open carried gun counts as having a concealed firearm.
(PC 12025 case law.)
As an out of state resident that would be a felony.
A loaded magazine is not a loaded gun, but a concealed magazine for a handgun is a concealed handgun (if you have immediate access to the rest of the handgun.)
Don't expect the law to make sense.
This only applies to handguns as rifles and shotguns are not effected by PC12025, and neither are their magazines (but then you have to learn all the crazy "assault weapon" laws.) An unloaded slung long gun may get you into trouble in public, but is technically legal so if you will be in the wilderness or elsewhere without witnesses and won't end up face down with loaded guns held by nervous cops pointed at you, it is an option.
Loaded magazines for it may be carried openly or concealed, but loaded handgun magazines must be carried openly.
Now if you commit various felony crimes then just having access to a firearm and ammo it can use counts as a loaded gun, even if the rounds are just loose and neither a magazine nor a firearm are actually loaded. But that applies as an enhancement to various other crimes and does not apply in general.
Honestly I would recommend anyone from out of state to avoid open carry of an unloaded handgun. The law takes awhile to fully understand, if you get charged even with unwarranted charges you can beat then you will have to come back to California for each of your court dates, and if you lose you will be a felon forever stripped of your RKBA in the entire nation.
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Lucky Derby
Member
As a CA resident I highly recommend you not do it. The laws are to confusing to figure out even for us here.
If you come within 1000 ft of a school you are in violation of the law.
What constitutes a school? hard to say. Public & private K-12 yes. Public & private pre-school, possibly. Parent who home schools their own children in their home, possibly.
Cops will be called and they have the right to make sure the gun is empty. Those situations are almost always unhppy for everyone.
Plus an empty gun is worse than no gun. It will only make you a target if you are unlucky enough to stumble into a robbery in progress or something.
The Unloaded open carry thing here in Califruity is good for little more than a political statement.
If you come within 1000 ft of a school you are in violation of the law.
What constitutes a school? hard to say. Public & private K-12 yes. Public & private pre-school, possibly. Parent who home schools their own children in their home, possibly.
Cops will be called and they have the right to make sure the gun is empty. Those situations are almost always unhppy for everyone.
Plus an empty gun is worse than no gun. It will only make you a target if you are unlucky enough to stumble into a robbery in progress or something.
The Unloaded open carry thing here in Califruity is good for little more than a political statement.
Leatherman-Cowboy
Member
Hey Yoda
DONT.The laws here are so screwd up,and I doubt you could get the same correct answer from two Police officers.The laws apply to the State,but I know from experience,not very much at all when you are out of the city.The truth is most police do have commen sence,and they know the laws are dumb.
Thank you,
Henry
DONT.The laws here are so screwd up,and I doubt you could get the same correct answer from two Police officers.The laws apply to the State,but I know from experience,not very much at all when you are out of the city.The truth is most police do have commen sence,and they know the laws are dumb.
Thank you,
Henry
Something to remember: those who do it, are doing it as a political protest. They tend to be very well-versed in California law, and that is not easy to be. It's not worth messing with if you're visiting.
Again, see http://www.calguns.net
If you want to see what Leatherman-Cowboy is talking about, go here and start reading the laws about carrying a weapon at Section 12025: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php
You CAN legally keep a loaded gun, concealed or out in the open, at your residence or temporary residence like a hotel room, campsite, etc., unless you can't (state park campgrounds, for just one of many examples, don't allow loaded guns).
Again, see http://www.calguns.net
If you want to see what Leatherman-Cowboy is talking about, go here and start reading the laws about carrying a weapon at Section 12025: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php
You CAN legally keep a loaded gun, concealed or out in the open, at your residence or temporary residence like a hotel room, campsite, etc., unless you can't (state park campgrounds, for just one of many examples, don't allow loaded guns).
If you do decide to bring firearms into CA, do not forget that there is still the high capacity magazine ban, which prohibits importation/possession of all firearms magazines that hold more than 10 rounds*.
*Only exception are magazines that were legally owned by you prior to 1-01-2001 and always kept in CA.
*Only exception are magazines that were legally owned by you prior to 1-01-2001 and always kept in CA.
deadin
Member
Just out of curiosity, what are you going to tell the local LEO when he stops you (and you will be stopped) and asks just why you are open carrying an unloaded gun?
(Your answer may establish just how much grief he decides to give you.)
(Your answer may establish just how much grief he decides to give you.
)How about " because I can't carry a loaded one"?Just out of curiosity, what are you going to tell the local LEO when he stops you (and you will be stopped) and asks just why you are open carrying an unloaded gun?
(Your answer may establish just how much grief he decides to give you.
Charleo0192
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I dont get it, you can open carry the gun in california but it has to be unloaded? seems pointless to even carry. I just dont see you being able to load your gun in a reasonable amount of time when the time you need your gun the most, you have very little time to act
So...a late 1930s or 1940s Browning High Power or Inglis would be an 'Illegal' Handgun in California for holding more than 'ten' Cartridges?
Circa 1890s .22 Pump with a Tubular Magazine holding more than 'ten'?
This is nuts...
What a Monkey on their back, yeeeeesh...
Circa 1890s .22 Pump with a Tubular Magazine holding more than 'ten'?
This is nuts...
What a Monkey on their back, yeeeeesh...
Librarian
Member
Not per se. If the magazines had been in CA prior to 2000, they'd be fine.
Please do not try to apply logic to CA gun laws.
NavyLCDR
member
Charleo0192 said:
And that is exactly what the California legislature's goal was!
It's better than nothing. Not defending the stupid law, but a gun with a loaded magazine handy at least gives one a chance, however slight.
Open Carry was intentionally banned in the 1960s and signed into law by Ronald Reagan as a response to the Black Panthers.
The legislator did not want people open carrying, and specifically made it illegal.
The Black panthers were going around open carrying and informing people of their rights during the civil rights era. They would listen to scanners and then go to crime scenes and stand at least 10 feet away while informing people who were under arrest what their rights were.
While armed. This created a lot of tension with cops.
So open carry was intentionally banned.
The ability to strap an unloaded pistol on is not an intentional liberty that was left. Rather the ability to have an unloaded unconcealed pistol was left as a means to allow people to transport from point a to point b when necessary. Like from home to car trunk, or rural home to wilderness, or even to legally open a locked case like in a parking lot before going down a trail to hunt.
Basically if it was not legal to have an unconcealed unloaded gun in "public" (which includes private property that is not fenced and closed per case law) then just unlocking a gun case in your driveway or on your front porch would be a crime.
Public open carry is banned in California (outside of various limited exemptions).
What people do now is more of a transportation "loophole" if you will. A necessary "loophole" for many people who have no intention of strapping an unloaded gun on, but still need to transport handguns.
It was never meant to allow anyone to defend themselves in public in any way whatsoever.
Since a person also has to remain at least 1,000 feet from all school zones under California law (not just schools themselves, but "school zones" including property etc) which is wider than almost any road, it is virtually impossible to travel with an unloaded open carried handgun.
Rural places have few roads, and the few they have go by one of the elementary, middle, or high schools.
Urban places have hundreds of schools and going a couple blocks in any direction typically goes within 1,000 feet of a school.
So you cannot do it.
Unless you are in some remote area or wilderness it is simply impractical.
The only reason you see pictures of people doing it and hear about "California open carry" is because gun rights groups do a lot of research and plan a specific spot to go "open carry". They do not carry to that location.
They do not travel or move much from that spot once arriving, and as a result of not moving remain more than 1,000 feet from all school zones.
They then remove the firearm and pack it away in a trunk or locked container before leaving that location.
The firearm laws are a complex web, and even people who abide by that web still end up charged or in court on occasion.
If you are from out of state I would advise against trying to jump in after a crash course in understanding the web.
It was never intended to allow anyone to defend themselves in any manner. It is simply an application of using the allowances for transport of a handgun to do more than transport.
The legislator intentionally outlawed carry and self defense in public with the panther legislation.
You are not supposed to be able to defend yourself without a concealed carry permit, that was their whole intent. To stop people from legally having a firearm readily available.
Since you cannot go within 1,000 feet of any school zone you cannot legally drive almost anywhere in California without your handgun in a locked container.
So you cannot go about your daily routine with an unloaded holstered handgun and a magazine either.
razorback2003
Member
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Tennessee has a similar law that allows openly carrying a handgun with no ammo in the immediate vicinity of the handgun as a DEFENSE to prosecution to 'intent to go armed'.
Here's the wording:
(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;
Now...this is actually similar to California...except we don't have a state level 1000ft school deal. This defense is actually for transport....the gunshow...handling to show someone at the Wal Mart parking lot a gun to sell...gunsmith..keep folks out of trouble for legit activities. I've never ever seen anyone here openly carry on foot an UNLOADED rifle or shotgun (we can't have loaded rifles or shotguns in public with or without a permit....and with a permit only a mag loaded long gun in vehicle)......or an UNLOADED handgun (b/c they couldn't get a permit).
Because I've never seen anyone do that sort of stuff in Tennessee...and the exemption is similar to California for people without permits/licenses....no way would I do it out there....man you're in Georgia...you know that is home of Nancy Pelosi, Paris Hilton, and all those funny people in Hollywood...do you think they'd like folks from our neck of the woods walking down the street in a populated area with a handgun strapped on our belt??? I bet police would be on us like white on rice...especially being from out of town....even though it may be sort of legal in a backwards way doesn't mean you want to try it....kind of like natives in New Orleans doing crazy stuff during Mardi Gras doesn't mean you should partake and end up being a revenue source for the City of New Orleans.
I'd just keep my handgun in my hotel room loaded and that's it when visiting out there...or take it to the range following the state's unloaded/cased laws....that's the best bet so you don't stick out like a sore thumb and pay a lot of money as a visitor.
Here's the wording:
(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;
Now...this is actually similar to California...except we don't have a state level 1000ft school deal. This defense is actually for transport....the gunshow...handling to show someone at the Wal Mart parking lot a gun to sell...gunsmith..keep folks out of trouble for legit activities. I've never ever seen anyone here openly carry on foot an UNLOADED rifle or shotgun (we can't have loaded rifles or shotguns in public with or without a permit....and with a permit only a mag loaded long gun in vehicle)......or an UNLOADED handgun (b/c they couldn't get a permit).
Because I've never seen anyone do that sort of stuff in Tennessee...and the exemption is similar to California for people without permits/licenses....no way would I do it out there....man you're in Georgia...you know that is home of Nancy Pelosi, Paris Hilton, and all those funny people in Hollywood...do you think they'd like folks from our neck of the woods walking down the street in a populated area with a handgun strapped on our belt??? I bet police would be on us like white on rice...especially being from out of town....even though it may be sort of legal in a backwards way doesn't mean you want to try it....kind of like natives in New Orleans doing crazy stuff during Mardi Gras doesn't mean you should partake and end up being a revenue source for the City of New Orleans.
I'd just keep my handgun in my hotel room loaded and that's it when visiting out there...or take it to the range following the state's unloaded/cased laws....that's the best bet so you don't stick out like a sore thumb and pay a lot of money as a visitor.
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