huntsman
Member
Ok then have someone record the failures while you’re using then you have documented proof to show buyer or ffl
Can I sell a gun with a known defect?
- Thread starter wiscoaster
- Start date
- Status
lightman
Member
I try to be the kind of seller that I would buy from. So yes, sell your gun with full disclosure.
There's zero issue with selling a defective item if the defect is called out. As someone said, some people actually like the challenge of bringing a gun back.
Also, some guns can be parted out on E-bay for good money. I bought an externally rust-pitted Remington 121 for about $160 on GB (rusty receiver/barrel and poor GB photos) because I needed a couple of parts out of it to fix a couple of hard-to-find broken parts in my Dad's old 1950 model. I cleaned up the remaining internal parts and put them aside. I got curious recently as to what they are bringing, so I checked E-bay. Based upon past sales, here's what it looked like I could probably get for some of the ones that would sell for enough to mess with.
Ejector assembly - 49
Magazine follower - 46
Bolt - 190
Butt Plate - 59
Stock - 130
Forearm - 120
Not bad for a few of the left-over parts from a gun bought for about $200 including shipping and transfer.
YMMV based upon the gun in question, of course.
Also, some guns can be parted out on E-bay for good money. I bought an externally rust-pitted Remington 121 for about $160 on GB (rusty receiver/barrel and poor GB photos) because I needed a couple of parts out of it to fix a couple of hard-to-find broken parts in my Dad's old 1950 model. I cleaned up the remaining internal parts and put them aside. I got curious recently as to what they are bringing, so I checked E-bay. Based upon past sales, here's what it looked like I could probably get for some of the ones that would sell for enough to mess with.
Ejector assembly - 49
Magazine follower - 46
Bolt - 190
Butt Plate - 59
Stock - 130
Forearm - 120
Not bad for a few of the left-over parts from a gun bought for about $200 including shipping and transfer.
YMMV based upon the gun in question, of course.
Last edited:
wiscoaster
Member
If you're the seller. You'll only get about 25% of retail if you sell them to a online parts retailer (Numrich eg).
I had Arcus 98DA. Had to sell it because of a trigger issue. The pull was soo long on DA so I was not able to shoot. When I posted it for sale I gave a full description of the issue. The buyer wrote in feedback that the gun is the best gun he ever had. Well... One man's trash is another man's treasure
Be Honest - If the issue is fail to feed, fail to extract, I would simply say I am selling because it is not reliable enough for my needs, I can't seem to get through a mag, 2 mags, etc without an FTE or FTF. so, I am tired of messing with it and parting ways with it and it is priced below "book value" (assuming you are) and am disclosing to you why I am doing so and why I am selling. If the buyer still wants it, then it is on them.
d
d
Last edited:
PWC
Member
Clarify please....you would not have a defect if you hadn't personaly expedienced it while shooting.
Do you mean a defect caused by you, hammer pinch, hands too big, recoil, etc?
Buzznrose
Member
If it is due to mechanical issues like a damaged crown or rifling, yes, you should.
Personally, I cannot sleep well if I think I sold a gun or anything else that I did t disclose any issues I knew or thought the gun had. But maybe that’s just me…
Buzznrose
Member
Good post.
My definition of “defective” for anything mechanical or any “hard good” is if it is broken or damaged. If needs to be or should be fixed with new parts or repaired in any way to make it fully functional as originally designed and built, it is defective.
This is different from modified in that if I replace an OEM rifle stock or trigger with aftermarket parts and it still functions properly and can be made original again, I call that modified and let the buyer know and I will provide all original parts if I have them.
If modified and can’t be made OEM (slide milled for optic), I provide name of company that did the work.
Honesty is the best policy…
huntsman
Member
wiscoaster
Member
Please check post #13.
PWC
Member
What is wrong with just saying, truthfully, in unambiguous words what the gun is doing and why you are selling it? There is no room for weasel wording. Anything less is dishonest.
"Not reliable" is dishonest unless you say why it is unreliable.
"Not reliable" is dishonest unless you say why it is unreliable.
I bought a Star Firestar M43 9mm years ago for a good price. The seller stated that it would constantly have failures to eject/stove pipe. I bought it knowing the possible issues anyway. I took it home, stripped it down and cleaned everything up. After checking it out and not finding anything obviously wrong I took it to the range. There was nothing wrong with it. The previous owner was using crappy underpowered ammo.
Needless to say, he was 100% up front and honest about what issues he had with the pistol so I no problem buying it. It would have been a different story if he would have said the gun functioned 100% and I later found out that I had to repair it.
Needless to say, he was 100% up front and honest about what issues he had with the pistol so I no problem buying it. It would have been a different story if he would have said the gun functioned 100% and I later found out that I had to repair it.
Last edited:
Palladan44
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2020
- Messages
- 1,904
If I'm purchasing a used gun, I look over it obsessively. Checking timings on wheelguns in both single and double action, on every part of the 6 cycles.
Double action revolvers with subtle (or major) timing issues are the #1 "dump" item out there IMO.
They are typically expensive repairs, that may take months or a full year to get fixed, and at a cost often 1/2 (or more) the value of the gun, making the gun "totaled" as far as value goes. Most local Smith shops don't touch them due to the vast majority of skilled revolver Smiths either retiring or dying off.
A good majority of our revolver fleet is aging, and the first thing to require repair is often the timing/lockwork. With revolvers requiring timing repair on the rise, and Smiths to actually do the repairs on the decline, these are the #1 "dump" item out there. Ive seen it a least a dozen times someone selling a revolver with a problem, and they seem to never claim to know about the problem....
I teach just about everyone I can about how to check wheelguns for timing issues.
Double action revolvers with subtle (or major) timing issues are the #1 "dump" item out there IMO.
They are typically expensive repairs, that may take months or a full year to get fixed, and at a cost often 1/2 (or more) the value of the gun, making the gun "totaled" as far as value goes. Most local Smith shops don't touch them due to the vast majority of skilled revolver Smiths either retiring or dying off.
A good majority of our revolver fleet is aging, and the first thing to require repair is often the timing/lockwork. With revolvers requiring timing repair on the rise, and Smiths to actually do the repairs on the decline, these are the #1 "dump" item out there. Ive seen it a least a dozen times someone selling a revolver with a problem, and they seem to never claim to know about the problem....
I teach just about everyone I can about how to check wheelguns for timing issues.
sugarmaker
Member
Half of new in box budget semi autos would fall into this category. Consign it at auction where the buyer beware is implied. I buy this way when I want a challenge, assuming the gun has issues that may require tweaked ammo or some mechanical work.
wiscoaster
Member
"New in box" is a defined, published and generally understood firearm conditon rating term, so a seller using "NIB" as a listing description for an item when it actually is not, may be committing fraud.
NRA Condition Grading Terms
However, it's "caveat emptor" when it comes to the buyer understanding the terms. Whereas "NIB" is a defined condition rating, "Like NIB" is not.
For example, I once bought a firearm that was described as (paraphrased) "like new in box, appears unfired, does not come with box or manual". Ya right. In other words, used but in almost like new condition. Upon cleaning the bore I could tell it had definitely been fired. But I find nothing wrong with the seller's description. He uses no defined terms, and appropriately qualifies his language so it's clear that it's his opinion it hasn't been fired.
Last edited:
BillTell
Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2017
- Messages
- 259
I get rid of most of my guns in a local auction house. Seems to bring the highest prices on any handgun or rifle. (funny, the shotguns don't do as well) The motto in the auction is ALWAYS "Buyer Beware!" Everyone has the right to go in and inspect the auction pieces beforehand. I don't have any problems with my conscience. I recently bought a Savage 99 that looks like it was stored in a sewer. (but I knew this before hand, as I went in and inspected it, and adjusted my price accordingly) You have to inspect everything before you buy. So I don't feel guilty about putting in guns that I'm not happy with. Someone will find them a home at a price they think is reasonable. The auction house gets 20% of the sale. All you have to do is bring in the gun, sign the papers, and cash the check when it comes. Nobody knows the buyer or the seller but the "house".
tws3b2
Member
You can sell any gun with pride even if not 100% safe "As Long You Are 101% Honest And Forthcoming With All You Know or Suspect the causes are.
A Signed bill of sale stating the gun is not 100% probably would not hurt.
A Signed bill of sale stating the gun is not 100% probably would not hurt.
gnappi
Member
I've had students that could jam a Gun EASILY. Not to say the OP isn't capable but some autos can jam once in a while. Ammo compatibility (factory and reloads) is a biggie for jams as is sloppy or non-existent lubrication.
But for a for a collectible / range gun? I can live with a few stoppages from even a well made and maintained gun.
Now for an EDC buy? I wouldn't trust a PO to know what the issue is, and if he had one his "gunsmith" may have been flipping burgers last year Believe me I've met a number of them! Anyway, I'd have no problem buying something that jams for the owner (I have owned a LOT of Colts) unless as has been said, there is a defect the owner doesn't disclose.
But for a for a collectible / range gun? I can live with a few stoppages from even a well made and maintained gun.
Now for an EDC buy? I wouldn't trust a PO to know what the issue is, and if he had one his "gunsmith" may have been flipping burgers last year
Believe me I've met a number of them! Anyway, I'd have no problem buying something that jams for the owner (I have owned a LOT of Colts) unless as has been said, there is a defect the owner doesn't disclose.
1KPerDay
Member
can you go over your process please?
Encoreman
Member
My definition of ethical is this. Doing the right thing even when nobody is around to witness the act. I would rather it be parted out than to cause somebody an issue that may cost someone their life. At this very moment I have a broken for the 2nd time a Beretta APX and I was thinking what am I going to do with it when I get it back, well they answered for me they are going to replace it. The thing about selling or trading it and telling the buyer, what if he/she keeps it for a short period of time and trades it and doesn't tell the buyer of any issue?? See where I am going with this. A firearm that is having issues is better off hung on the wall or thrown in the river piece at a time.
someguy2800
Member
Some people love buying other peoples broken junk just so they can have the satisfaction of having fixed it.
PS. It’s me. I’m some people.
PS. It’s me. I’m some people.
Last edited:
wiscoaster
Member
There are any number of YouTube videos on how to check the condition and function of a used revolver; here are a few:
Though I think one point these videos missed was what's specific to SAA-type revolvers in that you want to check the half-cock position of the hammer to make sure it locks the trigger and frees the cylinder to rotate.
Palladan44
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2020
- Messages
- 1,904
Sure. Ask politely to handle the gun, get approval.
Point in safe direction. Open cylinder to ensure empty. Check if clean (if super dirty and looks like it hasn't been cleaned in ages, that's usually not good, but not a deal breaker, some diamonds have been left in the rough)
Slowly close cylinder so the cyl. stop is not resting in one of the grooves.
Slowly pull back the hammer (I mean slowly) I don't want the inertia of the wheel spinning to get it into place. I want to see that the lockwork is operating in time to get the stud all the way home in one of the
detents BEFORE the hammer gets locked into the sear fully rearward. (Repeat for all cylinders)
I check this all in double action as well, using a finger as a shock absorber so I'm not "dry firing".
I don't let the hammer smash my finger, but use it as a bit of a shock absorber. It's a bit difficult to explain how I actually do this, but those of you that do this know what I mean. Again, what im looking for is the timing is all in good order in both single and double action.
I also check for slop in the cylinder, when the hammer is fully forward and trigger is all the way rearward. This varies a little depending on whether or not the revolver is a Colt Python/Trooper/Cobra, (and a few others) or not. These revolvers have different designs in how they lock up vs. others, and thus have different tolerances for slop, in my eyes anyways. Colts (unless it's a MK III or MK IV) lock up tightest when new, but are the most common to find "out of time" when used.
Smiths are the easiest for me to spot problems in because I have the most experience with.
The most double-action timing problems I've discovered are in Rugers, primarily in the Security Six type series. But, these guns were well used and didn't owe anything to anybody. I've yet to see a GP100 with a major problem, but only have handled maybe 10 or 15 ever. I've yet to own one....
As always, like to check the bore for rust, pitting or other issues that indicate neglect or usage beyond me wanting to buy it. Marring, peening or egging around any of the critical external moving parts that indicates a lot of rapid firing in double action I like to avoid as well, unless the price is appropriate, and the timing still checks out.
I don't like to see marring of the screws indicating the lockwork was opened by a careless user...this is a yellow flag to me...
Top strap flame cutting isn't good, and an obvious cut into the top strap is a gun I won't buy.
I Always check for forcing cone erosion (just visually) and "the crack" on Smith K frames at the 6 o' clock position is a no-go.
There are other things to look for, especially if you get specific with a make/model. I'm not going to pretend that I know them all.
I consider myself meticulous and careful when compared to the majority of gun buyers, and I know quite well I'm an amateur when compared to some.
Last edited:
1KPerDay
Member
Thanks, I've seen a few, but wanted more detail from a trusted source
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
