Can out of staters possess firearms or ammo in Illinois, without a carry license?

[Warp]

Illinois residents need a FOID (firearm owners identification card) to buy possess etc firearms or ammunition in IL.

Out of state residents do not nee, and in fact cannot even get, a FOID.

Do those out of state residents need a carry license from their home state?

Reference one:

http://www.usacarry.com/illinois-supreme-court-rules-non-residents-dont-need-foid-card/

"Illinois Supreme Court Rules Non-residents Don’t Need FOID Card

The Illinois Supreme Court overturned a case that made it illegal for non-Illinois residents to carry a gun in the state without an Illinois Firearm Owner Identification Card, something that only Illinois citizens can obtain.

The ruling stems from a case out of Chicago. Following a routine traffic stop, Leonard Holmes, Jr., a resident of Indiana, was charged with two counts of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon.

During the stop, police discovered a loaded pistol in the backseat armrest of Holmes’ car, which generated the first charge. Police also tacked on a charge of carrying a firearm without an Illinois FOID.

The court ruled 7-to-0 that someone who has a permit to have a gun from their home state doesn’t need to also get a FOID card.
Source and more reading: State House News

 

[slumlord44]

They can posses a gun in Illinois. They cannot carry a loaded gun in Illinois. Illinois does not recognize other states concealed carry permits.

 

[Ed Ames]

Well that's not consistent with what I've read either.

Illinois does recognize other states CHLs, but not as a full licence to carry. Instead it is treated as a licence to carry within an automobile. This was explicitly written into the IL code, and is not a result of the IlSC decisions Warp referenced.

Specifically, Section 40 of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act includes this:
"(e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:
********(1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a

****

firearm under federal law;

********(2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under

****

the laws of his or her state or territory of residence, as evidenced by the possession of a concealed carry license or permit issued by his or her state of residence, if applicable; and

********(3) is not in possession of a license under this Act."


Neither of which refutes the perspective that the main* non-residents protected by code or IlSC decision from prosecution for possession of a firearm without a FOID are non-residents with a CHL in their home state.

* IIRC there are also provisions for people with IL non-resident hunting licences, but I haven't searched the code.

 

[danez71]

From the ruling

We agree with defendant that the two statutes must be read together in order to avoid absurd results. Reading the statutes separately, as the appellate court did, would mean that anout-of-state resident who transports a firearm into Illinois when the firearm is legally registered in his home state would be exempt from misdemeanorprosecution under the FOID Card Act but that the same conduct would subject such individual to felony prosecution under section 24–1.6(a)(1)(3)(C). This cannot be what the legislature intended. Reading thesestatutes together, as we must, we find that the exception identified in section 2(b)(10) of the FOID Card Act can be applied to the unlawful use of weapons statute and, therefore, a valid permit or license from another state can substitute for the FOID card requirement in section 24–1.6. Accordingly, we hold that the exception contained in section 2(b)(10) must be incorporated in the unlawful use of weapons act.

 

[Warp]

I haven't seen anything anywhere that in any way said an out of state individual must have a carry license from their state to possess a firearm in Illinois.

Okay, so a carry permit "can" substitute for a FOID. That is wholly different from saying the out of state individual must have a carry permit to substitute for a FOID card, and I'm pretty sure the people righting these things know when to use a word like can and when to use a word like must.

 

[Nanook]

You just need your out of state driver's license to possess a gun in IL. As in attending a shooting event in IL, buying ammo in IL, etc.

As mentioned the new IL CCL law allows people from other states with a license from those states to carry in their cars. But not outside, since IL doesn't recognize any other state's CCL.

 

[il.bill]

The following post is NOT LEGAL ADVICE.


From the information I have, both the state criminal code and the Dept. of Natural Resources wildlife code must be followed - in essence, unloaded, not easily accessible, and fully encased. Your out-of-state driver's license is used for ID to purchase and possess ammunition.

See the two attachments for more details.


From the Illinois State Police brochure:

IF A NON-RESIDENT IS VISITING ILLINOIS,
HUNTING, OR TRAVELING THROUGH WITH
A FIREARM, HOW DO THEY LEGALLY
TRANSPORT IT?
Non-residents must be legally eligible to possess
or acquire fi rearms and ammunition. Non residents
are not required to have an Illinois FOID Card. It is
recommended that in order to be in compliance with all
statutes, non-residents transport all fi rearms:
1. broken down in a non-functioning state; or
2. not immediately accessible; or
3. unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying
box, shipping box, or other container.


From the Illinois Department of Natural Resources brochure:

If a non-resident is coming to Illinois to hunt
and would like to bring their firearm, how
do they legally transport it?
Non-residents must comply with the gun case law as
described above. Additionally, the firearm must not
be immediately accessible or must be broken down in
a non-functioning state

 

[danez71]

Okay, so a carry permit "can" substitute for a FOID. That is wholly different from saying the out of state individual must have a carry permit to substitute for a FOID card, and I'm pretty sure the people righting these things know when to use a word like can and when to use a word like must.

Is it reallydifferent?

Did you read the ruling?

The upper court basically said the legislature poorly wrote it, the lower court misread/misinterpreted it, and an out of state license can be used as a substitute for the requirement of the FOID card.

The upper court is not disputing that a requirment is needed for an out of state resident but is accepting either a FOID or an out of state license/permit.

Seems this is ripe for another challenge down the road for those visitors from states that have zero permits/licenses.


ETA:

and I'm pretty sure the people righting these things know when to use a word like can and when to use a word like must.

Actually the upper court judge used "can".

The people that wrote it didnt include "can" or "must" or any other such words because they failed to address it.

 

[Warp]

You just need your out of state driver's license to possess a gun in IL. As in attending a shooting event in IL, buying ammo in IL, etc.

As mentioned the new IL CCL law allows people from other states with a license from those states to carry in their cars. But not outside, since IL doesn't recognize any other state's CCL.

This is what I have always thought, and still think

 

[danez71]

Almost seems like the answer is in the OP.

The court ruled 7-to-0 that someone who has a permit to have a gun from their home state doesn’t need to also get a FOID card.

 

[Warp]

Almost seems like the answer is in the OP.

Almost, but not quite.

Almost doesn't really cut it with the law, you know?

 

[danez71]

Almost, but not quite.

Almost doesn't really cut it with the law, you know?

Lucky for us, a panel of 7 judges looked into it and gave a unanimous ruling with commentary.

Did you read the ruling?

 

[Neo-Luddite]

FYI---this was a court ruling from FIVE YEARS AGO that predates the passage of CCW in Illinois---I don't see that it has any relevance to the situation that now exists in Illinois.


To the best of my tortured understanding as a life-long Illinois resident and gun nut:
Out-of-staters who lawfully posses normal title 1 firearms may do so in Illinois if they are visiting here provided they comply with laws regarding cased and unloaded transport or may have a loaded CCW weapon in their vehicle if permitted by their home state. The 'gears' of the very new CCW laws are not 100% meshing with the older state gun laws and will lead to some minor confusion. If you are from out-of-state you will not be able to touch a firearm at a store and may very well be told you cannot buy ammo by the clerk---the former situation is factually true and the latter a common misconception that leads to arguments that end is disappointment for the visitor. So if you visit Illinois please bring enough ammo for your needs. And remember ~ Dragon's Breath shotshells, bolo / grape shot, flechette rounds & AP ammo (apart from such as exempted by ATF as sporting like m2AP .30/06 and 5.56 m855/ss109 NATO) are illegal here for no particular reason. But take heart--hollow points, tracer and incendiary rounds are still a-ok! Enjoy your visit!

 

[Warp]

FYI---this was a court ruling from FIVE YEARS AGO that predates the passage of CCW in Illinois---I don't see that it has any relevance to the situation that now exists in Illinois.


To the best of my tortured understanding as a life-long Illinois resident and gun nut:
Out-of-staters who lawfully posses normal title 1 firearms may do so in Illinois if they are visiting here provided they comply with laws regarding cased and unloaded transport or may have a loaded CCW weapon in their vehicle if permitted by their home state. The 'gears' of the very new CCW laws are not 100% meshing with the older state gun laws and will lead to some minor confusion. If you are from out-of-state you will not be able to touch a firearm at a store and may very well be told you cannot buy ammo by the clerk---the former situation is factually true and the latter a common misconception that leads to arguments that end is disappointment for the visitor. So if you visit Illinois please bring enough ammo for your needs. And remember ~ Dragon's Breath shotshells, bolo / grape shot, flechette rounds & AP ammo (apart from such as exempted by ATF as sporting like m2AP .30/06 and 5.56 m855/ss109 NATO) are illegal here for no particular reason. But take heart--hollow points, tracer and incendiary rounds are still a-ok! Enjoy your visit!

Yes, I had the rather ironic scenario a little while back where I was shooting my pistol at a range in IL but I was not allowed to touch any of the firearms they had in the store front.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Yes, I had the rather ironic scenario a little while back where I was shooting my pistol at a range in IL but I was not allowed to touch any of the firearms they had in the store front.

We're moving in the right direction on RKBA issues these days. Still, there are the Chicago state reps who will propose bizarre anti-gun laws each and every session that have to be contended with. The ISRA is fighting a good fight!

 

[Drop45]

""Yes, I had the rather ironic scenario a little while back where I was shooting my pistol at a range in IL but I was not allowed to touch any of the firearms they had in the store front.""

Quite the opposite here. I live in Indiana and went to a gun shop/range last week in bordering Lansing Il. I coon fingered every gun I wanted to look at, shot at the range and bought some [2] boxes of self defense ammo.....all by showing my Indiana drivers license. Now if I lived in Illinois, they wouldn't let me touch a gun without a FOID card.

 

[joem1945]

That's why I will never go to IL for any reason.

 

[Malamute]

Question.

Out-of-staters who lawfully posses normal title 1 firearms may do so in Illinois if they are visiting here provided they comply with laws regarding cased and unloaded transport or may have a loaded CCW weapon in their vehicle if permitted by their home state.

Does this mean that if the visitors home state allows concealed carry without a permit/license, then its still OK to carry concealed in a vehicle in Il without a specific concealed carry permit/license?

I guess the question becomes, does "if permitted in their home state" mean allowed in their home state, or with a permit in/from their home state?

 

[danez71]

Read the bold on post 3.

As I mentioned before, I think it's ripe for another challenge from someone from a permit less state

 

[Warp]

Read the bold on post 3.

As I mentioned before, I think it's ripe for another challenge from someone from a permit less state

The bolding in post #3 is stopped right before the phrase if applicable

Taking bits and pieces of partial sentences from these things and trying to use them stand alone is usually not a good idea

 

[Malamute]

Yes, the if applicable seems to modify the general rule.

Its clear as mud.

I don't want to be a test case.

 

[IL Guns]

There is a major problem in Illinois as to it concerns gun and carry laws. The fact that the State is relatively new to the whole concealed carry issue is what confuses even law enforcement. "Test case" hits it right on the nose. For instance State Law is supposed to trump Local Law but Cook County where Chicago is located as say the suburb of Aurora have 10 round magazine limits. You think that are doing everything 100% legal but then your concealed carry gun which should be legal is looked at by an suburb of Cook County or Aurora LEO and found to have a 15 round magazine. The police decide to arrest you. Do you want to be the test case for a hastily written law?
There are discussions of ammo and while you should be able to buy ammo with an out of State ID, many LGS shops will not. I have seen some pretty ugly scenes over what should be clear but is vague as far as the law goes. Basically there are many different opinions from gun shops, FFL holders and law enforcement. You may get three different answers BUT who by law, is right? There are many things that need to be hashed out with Illinois gun laws and in time that will happen. For right now, does anybody want to be the one to make legal precedent?
Living in the State I wouldn't and as an example there are gun shops in Cook County that have no problem selling you a handgun with a 15 or more capacity magazine. There are others that have ranges attached that have signs up stating no magazines over 10 rounds. Who is right?
The problem is right now nobody REALLY knows. This will all be sorted out when Illinois is working again. Right now there is some very serious political turmoil that has to be resolved before these things get hashed out.

 

[IL Guns]

As to shooting at a range in IL you are allowed to shoot on somebody else's FOID. I am allowed to bring a person, the range takes my FOID and if the person is of age,(not your 10 year old kid) their ID and we are given a lane or lane assignments. If the same person who did not have a FOID wanted to look at guns in the case, the first thing out of the clerks mouth is going to be FOID please. No FOID, no touching seems to be the general rule. Also ONE person can shoot on the range on your FOID but I have seen as many as three at a certain range. It depends on the LGS but generally one person and "I don't care if you are from out of state, no ammo purchases without a FOID." Are you going to argue with at a LGS where all the employees are carrying?

 

[danez71]

The bolding in post #3 is stopped right before the phrase if applicable

Taking bits and pieces of partial sentences from these things and trying to use them stand alone is usually not a good idea

Since you still haven't answered after about 3 times now.... I'll ask again.

Did you read the unanimous ruling that was linked in your link? Did you read the commentary in the ruling?


Theres a statute and a ruling. The ruling, for instance, says that things must be incorporated into the poorly written statute.

Some of your comments are as if you did not read your links. Thats usually not a good idea either.

 

[Warp]

Since you still haven't answered after about 3 times now.... I'll ask again.

Did you read the unanimous ruling that was linked in your link? Did you read the commentary in the ruling?


Theres a statute and a ruling. The ruling, for instance, says that things must be incorporated into the poorly written statute.

Some of your comments are as if you did not read your links. Thats usually not a good idea either.

...

I haven't seen anything anywhere that in any way said an out of state individual must have a carry license from their state to possess a firearm in Illinois.

If you have something that says out of state residents must have a carry license to merely posses a firearm, just post it already