Can small rifle magnum primers be used for standard .223?

[LocoGringo]

If so, how? A buddy went to Gander Mountain and asked for small rifle primers and the young, ignorant "helper" handed him small rifle MAGNUM primers . Gander has a policy of not accepting powders, primers or loaded ammunition as a return , so my buddy wants to know if he can use magnum primers to do the same job and if so, how. I just got started handloading and this is over my head. Don't want to give him bad info. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Walkalong]

With some powders, they are preferable. No worries either way, although you may want to stop a couple of tenths short of max for recipes that call for standard primers.

 

[rodregier]

OTOH, several of the non-magnum primers have thinner cups, and are a poorer choice for .223 REM because of that.

CCI 400 vs 450

Rem 6 1/2 vs 7 1/2

 

[rodregier]

Cup thickness chart here:

http://www.njhighpower.com/cart_tech.htm

You *want* thick cups for .223 Rem

 

[Otto]

Magnum primers are for large-capacity cases and/or ball propellants.
Safety Note: use Magnum primers only when specified in published load data.

 

[rcmodel]

and the young, ignorant "helper" handed him small rifle MAGNUM primers

And your ignorant "buddy" didn't read the package label before accepting them, and paying for them??

Don't blame the poor store clerk for your 'buddy's' mistake at the store.

They very well may have did him a favor and sold him the only SR primers they had in stock under todays conditions!



BTW: Mag SR primers are perfectly fine for use in .223.
(If, you start at the starting load, and work up as you should always do anyway.)

rc

 

[CMV]

All I've ever used for .223 & 300 BLK - the only 2 rifle rounds I load - are SRM. Either CCI 41 or CCI 450

 

[LocoGringo]

rcmodel, I know what you're implying and it wasn't me that actually did this. You're right, you should read the label to make sure you're getting what you ordered, but my buddy is new to reloading and didn't think this was really a possibility. I guess both of the guys involved in the transaction are, literally, ignorant.

You pointing this out doesn't help the quandary he's faced with and trying to seek info to learn. I'm not looking to get into an argument to try to assign blame.

 

[Otto]

(If, you start at the starting load, and work up as you should always do anyway.)

I doubt that the OP and his buddy could readily detect an over pressure issue...they need to stick to published load data.

 

[LocoGringo]

Thanks for all of the replies. Since I'm also new, what are the main differences between standard primers and magnum primers? It looks like primer cup thickness is one. I also assume they "blast hotter"?

 

[Otto]

Google "primer brisance"

 

[rcmodel]

I'm not looking to get into an argument to try to assign blame.

Me neither.

I was trying to help you, by telling you they are perfectly fine for use in .223.

If you start low and work up, as you always should.

Some data you will find calls for MSR in .223 depending on the powder you are using.

Others, such as Hodgdon data, calls for Win SR with all powders they sell.

And Winchester only makes one power SR primer, which in most folks eyes, is a magnum primer in the first place.

rc

 

[Otto]

Is it helpful to advise newbies to deviate from publish load data?
If the manual doesn't call for Magnum primers, follow the rules and don't use them.
Maybe you haven't had a problem but past performance is no guarantee of future results.

 

[HexHead]

They're probably a better choice if using ball powder. Should be fine for .223.

 

[TexasShooter59]

And Winchester only makes one power SR primer, which in most folks eyes, is a magnum primer in the first place.

rc

Really? I ask this as I don't have any experience with Win SR, but they seem to turn up available more often. For some reason, I thought they were regular, with soft cups on the later ones.

 

[rodregier]

I reload for the AR15 pattern rifles in .223 Rem. I moved away from the WSR primers when they were changed for the worse by Winchester around 1999. (Eliminated the plating step).
old (good) => silver color
new (less good) => gold color

Winchester's literature spins the change as an improvement. IMHO for most applications the change is for the worse.

The AR15 pattern rifles have a floating firing pin. One of the factors in avoiding an unintended ignition when the cartridge is chambered and the free-floating firing pin taps the primer are thick, less-sensitive cups. Thick primer cups are also better with higher-pressure cartridges (like .223 Rem).

Want an eye-opening example of the free-floating firing pin? Inspect the primer of a factory cartridge, then place the cartridge in a magazine. Seat the magazine in an AR15 pattern rifle, and chamber (but don't fire) that cartridge. Remove the magazine and use the charging handle to eject the chambered round. Examine the primer of the ejected cartridge.. See that dimple in the centre of the primer? That was made by the free-floating firing pin.

 

[rcmodel]

Really?

Really.
If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't have said it.

Perhaps someone else with more knowledge of Win SM primers can confirm what I said?

I could be totally wrong.

rc

 

[rodregier]

From what I read, the WSR's have more aluminum powder to give a longer flame dwell time for igniting ball powders. Don't know how they compare for bristance.

By that measure, they could be easily considered magnum primers.
(Magnum primers being recommended for hard-to-ignite powder like ball or taller columns of powder).

 

[TexasShooter59]

I have been using CCI41s (rated magnum strength) for ARs, and standard primers for the bolt rifle. Locally, I cannot get the 41s anymore, but the Winchesters, I can find. Thanks for all the replies!

 

[gdcpony]

This thread has me interested now. I load .223 for three guns a bolt Savage, a DPMS AR, and a Rossi Break action. Since My kids guns don't make much difference with their best load and my AR's best, I load all the same. Near max charge of Varget under a 50gr Zmax. The Rossi has a hard time setting them off, but I can throw the rounds in either of the other two and fire them. I have been wondering about a softer primer for that gun, but wouldn't want to slam fire the AR either. I will be waiting for this thread to go on. SMR primers, Sounds like more load development is coming!

 

[rodregier]

gdcpony - look at the Federal SR primers for your Rossi. They would be my last choice for AR15 pattern, but Federal primers use a more sensitive compound than others, and are the choice for firearms that have light strikes on the primer. In a similar vein Federal SP primers are popular for revolver shooters who have reduced the hammer springs to give a lighter trigger pull.

 

[rcmodel]

I'd fix the Rossi, and use hard primers for the AR's and the Rossi.

That way, there would be no chance of mixing up the ammo and having slam fires in the AR's.

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Is it helpful to advise newbies to deviate from publish load data?
If the manual doesn't call for Magnum primers, follow the rules and don't use them.
Maybe you haven't had a problem but past performance is no guarantee of future results.

This is the third time in the thread you said you should use only published data. Are you telling us we shouldn't use CCI #41 NATO primers in our .223 ammo meant for a semi-auto? If we do use the CCI #41 primers we are using a magnum strength primer because according to CCI they are magnum strength.

Unfortunately these days many of the load manuals aren't recommending the correct primers for a lot of loads. In reality the load data in the manuals isn't a recommendation but only what they used when developing that particular load. It's a good idea (but not required) to use a CCI #41 or Remington 7 1/2 primer for loading AR-15 ammo yet there are no manuals I know of listing CCI #41 primers with their load data.

 

[556by45guy]

Yes, you can use SRM primers, just make sure you work up a load and keep in mind you are varying from the manual if it doesn't call for a SRM primer. CCI#41 give me about 90fps more velocity than CCI400 for the same powder charge in my .223 reloads. I would definitely not treat them the same as non-magnum primers.

 

[LocoGringo]

I'm fairly sure he's loading for an AR-15, but I don't know what brand the primers he bought are. I've got to get more info from him. I also don't think he's actually started load development yet. Thank you for all of the info...it is extremely helpful. Great discussion.

Otto, while I am new, I'm a little familiar with overpressure signs to watch for. I haven't gone over max loads in any of my loads yet and don't plan on it. I have ZERO desire to blow either my gun or me up, and I'm sure my buddy thinks the same. Thank you for your concern for a noob.