Can small rifle magnum primers be used for standard .223?

[steve4102]

Is it helpful to advise newbies to deviate from publish load data?
If the manual doesn't call for Magnum primers, follow the rules and don't use them.
Maybe you haven't had a problem but past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Yes, I believe it is. It is important for the newbie and even the experience to realize that Load Data is NOT a recipe and merely a guideline.

"follow the Rules" and "Follow the Data" gives the impression that the load data is a recipe and someone it will be "safe" as long as you "follow" it. Nothing could be further from the truth.

It's totally impossible to follow any load data to the letter, it simply cannot be done. To "follow the data" to the letter one would not only have to have the exact same powder, primer, brass and bullet he would have to have the exact same lot numbers of all these components. Not to mention the number one component of all, The Firearm, not one just like it the exact same firearm.

Just so you know there is plenty of load data for the 223 with Mag primers. Lyman 48, Nosler and Sierra all list the Rem 7 1/2 as the primer used. The Rem 7 1/2 is a Mag Primer. Also Speer list a Mag primer for the 223 with all ball/spherical powders.

 

[gdcpony]

I'd fix the Rossi, and use hard primers for the AR's and the Rossi.

That way, there would be no chance of mixing up the ammo and having slam fires in the AR's.

rc

I would if I could tell the problem. So far as I know it is dimpling the primers as deep as the other two, just not striking as hard if that makes any sense.

I might try the Federal primers. I always chamber while facing in a safe direction and only when I am in the area I plan on shooting anyways, so a slamfire would be a shocking nuisance, not a devastating mistake. I can try a box of them and if nothing else mark that one box for her gun only. It's only a single shot so one box will do for a month in it.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[kerreckt]

Why confuse the issue? Using mid level data they/you will be safe using magnum primers. Thicker cups are only preferable (not necessary) when using an AR type rifle. They are supposed to diminish the possibility of a slam fire. That's it.

 

[jwrowland77]

Yes you can use magnum primers where it's called for standard. Just take the load you have worked up, reduce it, and work back up. If you don't have a load yet, all the more better, just start low and work up.

I have a 7mm RM and a .308. One calls for mag other standard. I use Large Rifle Magnum for both. This reduces my chance of getting the two mixed up when loading a bunch. I know when I grab my large rifle primers, that they are all magnum, and I worked up my loads in my .308 with the magnum primers. Perfectly safe to do.

 

[Muddydogs]

Really 2 pages on mag primers again? Yes you can use what ever primer you want, to be safe work up your load. I load CCI mag primers in everything from .380 auto to 7mm Rem mag with no issues what so ever and since my loads are worked up for mag primers I don't worry about using standard CCI primers in a load worked up for mag primers.

I started using mag primers in my 7mm as I had some hang fires hunting in cold temps and per a couple reloading books back in the day this was the best cure other then switching powder. To keep it simple I just started buying mag primers for all my primer needs. This worked out well since I needed to restock a few sizes during the latest scare and mag primers are harder to find then standard so I purchased standard primers and loaded away.

 

[JShirley]

I have a Rossi 7.62x39mm that will not reliably fire ANY round, though Russian rounds are even harder to set off than commercial US rounds.

 

[Rule3]

Lets all pile on

Look at the chart below. The difference in regular and magnum rifle is insignificant.

As to following recipes/directions, I agree but they are not always absolute, For example look at Hodgdons data for say the 357 Magnum. They use a Magnum primer with every powder even though some powders do not require a mag primer. They told me it is just for consistency.

Winchester large pistol primers are good for regular or Magnum loads.

I would have no issue with using a small rifle mag primer in 223/556.

 

[5thSFGroup]

Could not agree more with the comments by ArchAngel. CCI 41 is an outstanding primer and is a magnum primer. I use that in my Casull loads as well. Good and hard...no slam fires either.....

 

[788Ham]

In a couple of my Hornady reloading books, they show to use "Small rifle Magnum" primers in the reloading of the .223 cartridge, this is all I've ever used. Shooting in my Remington 788 rifle.

 

[LeftyTSGC]

Not to disrupt the Magnum theorist, but based on what i recently purchased it MUST be okay to use either primer, just reduce the load.

I just purchased these WLP, read whats on the lable.:banghead:

I know that they are not for rifle, but does it apply

 

[MrWesson]

Not to disrupt the Magnum theorist, but based on what i recently purchased it MUST be okay to use either primer, just reduce the load.

I don't reduce the loads(FOR SMALL RIFLE). I use reloading data as normal.

Based on my chronograph they are unaffected between magnum and standard rifle.

From what I have read which is admittedly very little on handgun magnum primers that they do affect it quite a bit and either shouldn't be used or the load reduced significantly.

 

[mdm]

CCI #41 is my choice for the AR .223.

Locally, I cannot get the 41s anymore

MidwayUSA has had them in stock pretty regularly for a while now. I just ordered 5000 from Powder Valley today. Even with shipping and HazMat charge it still came out cheaper than the local store that's been stocking them.

 

[joustin]

They were only $3.99 per 100 right? I have seen them swap primers at that Gander when I worked there, did he explain that he was given the wrong item when trying to return them? When I worked there (I left last month) I was one of maybe 4 people that knew anything about reloading.

 

[LocoGringo]

I don't know any of the particulars about his deal. After reading the replies on this forum, I've advised him that he isn't in as bad a position as he thought and he is ok to use them as long as he's careful in his load workup and that he should stay away from max book loads. Thanks for all the help.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have been using CCI41s (rated magnum strength) for ARs, and standard primers for the bolt rifle. Locally, I cannot get the 41s anymore, but the Winchesters, I can find. Thanks for all the replies!

When I can't get CCI #41 primers I use CCI-450 primers instead. Next in line are the Remington 7 1/2 primers followed by CCI-400 and then at the very end I use Winchester WSR 6 1/2 primers.

While Federal primers are popular I don't use them because of price and the huge box they package in. They have a fairly new primer out meant specifically for .223/5.56mm ammo in a semi-auto, their GM205MAR primers. (Small Rifle AR Match Primers)

Tula, Wolf and a few other foreign makers have NATO rated primers too but I choose not to use them. (but they are available)

 

[TexasShooter59]

Thanks, Arch for your post. Your order of priority is interesting. I have some CCI450s next in line, but they dried up locally, too. I only had a 100 count package of Rem 7 1/2 that I used for a bolt rifle, and got some great groups. I hardly ever see those. I probably will just have to break down and mail order! Thanks again.

 

[edfardos]

Speer calls for magnum primers with h335... technically it's a ball powder right?

I use'm, but not at max loads.

Edfardos

 

[edfardos]

Re handguns, I see a 50fps increase in 45acp. No measureable diff in a 223 with mag primers.

 

[horseman1]

Never mind, this was duplicate information

 

[rodregier]

H335 is called "spherical", ball powder is a registered trademark of Olin (Winchester)

Spherical/ball powders have a burning deterrent coating to push the ignition curve a bit further down the barrel. It also makes the powder slightly harder to reliably ignite, which is why "magnum" primers are recommended for it in rifle cartridges.

In .223 Rem in a semi-auto I want thicker cups, so my choices in that category would be:
CCI 41
CCI 450
CCI BR4 (pricy)
Rem 7 1/2

I normally run CCI450's for any new reloading for .223 Rem these days.

I formerly used the pre-2000 silver WSR's, but I decline to use the post-2000 gold WSR's.
(Thru shear luck I had a bunch of silver WSR's before the changeover).

Cup thickness in 1995:

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

 

[ranger335v]

"Is it helpful to advise newbies to deviate from publish load data? "

Perhaps not. On the other hand, it's not helpful to let noobs think everything listed in a book is, by that fact, safe either. Even the load books themselves don't think that's true, so what's the real value of precisely duplicating a book load?

Every reloading manual I've ever seen - and that's a lot - has the admonition to "start low and work up slowly to max UNLESS pressure signs appear early" and that seems the wiser suggestion to anyone. If we do that one thing we can all swap any component safely but blindly trusting any book is never safe for anyone no matter how carefully we duplicate it.