Can someone please educate me on Obama/Romney

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Sgt.Murtaugh

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and their record with gun legislation voting? I started a thread in activism, but there are only 8 ppl viewing so I'm afraid it wont get answered. I was having a discussion with a liberal, gun-toting friend of mine who swears Obama is not anti-gun like the media would have you believe and that Romney is also not as gun-friendly as the media might have you believe.

Is there any resource I can go to to learn about their stances and history concerning gun laws? I haven't been able to find anything. I also heard there was a Brady Campaign score card that ranks politicians based on their stance on gun control and I would like to see that as well.

thanks.

Please don't link me to anything from Fox (Faux) News or Huffington Post. Those are not real trustworthy sources.
 
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BOTH ARE GUN GRABBERS..... romney signed into legislation in mass. the most restrictive gun laws in our country - including a ban on so-called assault weapons....

obama has stated that ak-47s are for the military only....

do I need to say more?
 
I'd not trust either of them.

The Second Amendment is very clear in what is says, especially that it's not the Feds issue at all. But that fight we lost a long time ago already.
 
if both are gun grabbers, then it's a matter of lesser of 2 evils. Who is least evil? Show me some proof of each being gun grabbers, too. I don't want this turning into a CNN/Fox News talking point rally
 
if both are gun grabbers, then it's a matter of lesser of 2 evils. Who is least evil? Show me some proof of each being gun grabbers, too. I don't want this turning into a CNN/Fox News talking point rally

I think Google is your friend.
 
Neither can be trusted. Romney was calling for a ban again during the last presidental primaries.

Obama won't do anything unless he gets elected again or maybe a lame duck stab back at us.
Romney is a RINO so expect what you would normally expect from a MA politician.
 
I have tried this but can't find anything I trust

I'm sorry if all gun-related web sites feel untrustworthy to you. There are literally hundreds of quality sites starting from NRA, GOA, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, etc, that provide accurate information on the subject.

Or, you can try to trust gun owners here. Some of us have fought this fight for over 40 years. Many of us are veterans, cops, active military, firearms instructors, lawyers, etc.

Pick your poison.
 
Look beyond the candidates personally and look at their constituencies -- i.e., who supports them. There's a world of difference. Once in office, the candidate would be constrained by his supporters. For example, I can't imagine Romney making an appointment to the Supreme Court without at least some input from the NRA. Obama, on the other hand, would be constantly fending off demands from the Brady bunch (that's the most optimistic way of looking at it).
 
In the future please do not post the same topic in more than one forum.

DO NOT turn this into a "conservative" this or "liberal" that thread. Stick to the records and the facts and leave the emotion and finger pointing out of the thread or it will be locked
 
IMO, neither is gun-friendly. What you would likely get with a Romney election would be a 4yr window of no new gun regulations. Beyond that, I'd say all bets are off.
 
Ok last warning. Stick to the facts or I will lock this. If you have something to say make sure it has substance and is on topic. Post facts, not emotional rants and be ready to cite any sources. Any more X or Y is a gun grabber posts with no proof beyond what your over heard at the gas station while waiting in line to buy Mtn Dew and we are done.
 
In the future please do not post the same topic in more than one forum.

DO NOT turn this into a "conservative" this or "liberal" that thread. Stick to the records and the facts and leave the emotion and finger pointing out of the thread or it will be locked
they weren't really the same thread, just related.

sounds to me like Romney is not a good choice either, when it comes to 2nd amendment :(
 
Well theres not much I can say about Obama that would be "highroad" other than we are unfortunate enough to be calling him president. What he has done to the Constitution is disgraceful at best. And he is more anti-gun than the media portrays. If he gets re-elected then you'll get to see first hand how anti-2nd amendment he is.

As far as Romney, well unfortunately the "anyone but Obama" mantra has somewhat blown up in their face. We are left with a "quasi" conservative who is just different enough from Obama on some issues but to close for comfort on the 2nd amend issue.
Basically we will have to fight hard either way to keep our 2nd amendment rights, much harder if Obama wins again IMO. But my vote doesn't linger on just the 2nd amendment issue.
 
Courtesy of GunBlast.com: Obama on guns, in his own words, with citations:

"I don't believe that people should be able to own guns."

Barak Obama, as quoted to John R. Lott, Jr., PhD, while both were working at the University of Chicago Law School in 1996. From the book "Debacle", by Grover G. Norquist and John R Lott, Jr., John Wiley & Sons, Inc.: Publisher

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"I just want you to know that we are working on it. We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar."

Barak Obama to Sarah Brady regarding gun control. Jason Horowitz, Washington Post, April 11th, 2011
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"I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manufacturers' lobby."

From "The Audacity of Hope" by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006
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"Let’s be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban."

Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes , Oct 21, 2004
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Q. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate , Apr 16, 2008
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"I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry."

Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 , Aug 14, 2007
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Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:

Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.

Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.

Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test , Jul 2, 1998
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"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."

Pittsburg Tribune-Review (April 2, 2008)
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"National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents."

Chicago Tribune, February 20, 2004
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"We need to make the expired Assault Weapon ban permanent. We need to express our collective anger through collective action."

Barak Obama - Speech 07/15/07 (Associated Press)
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“While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety.”

Source: 2003 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire
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“Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’

Source: ‘I’m Not Going to Take Your Guns Away’ Wall Street Journal September 5, 2008
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"I would support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons and limiting the sale of ammunition for handguns."

Source: 2003 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire
 
I can cut and paste too:


1994: backed 5-day waiting period on gun sales
In 1994 Romney pushed some reliably Republican themes, including requiring welfare recipients to work, cracking down on crime, and creating private-sector jobs. But he often strayed from the party plank as he sought to broaden his base of support. He backed two gun-control measures that were strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association: the Brady Law, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on certain assault weapons, saying, "I think they will help."
Source: The Real Romney, by Kranish & Helman, p.185 , Jan 17, 2012

Find common ground with pro-gun & anti-gun groups
Q: You signed the nation's first ban on assault weapons in Massachusetts and steeply increased fees on gun owners by 400%. How can you convince gun owners that you will be an advocate for them?
ROMNEY: We had a piece of legislation that was crafted both by the pro-gun lobby and the anti-gun lobby. The pro-gun lobby said "this legislation allows us to cross roads with weapons when we're hunting that had not been previously allowed." And the day when we announced our signing, we had both the pro-gun owners and anti-gun folks all together on the stage because it worked. We worked together. We found common ground. My view is that we have the second amendment right to bear arms and my view is also that we should not add new legislation. I know that there are people that think we need new laws. I disagree with that. I believe we have in place all the laws we need. We should enforce those laws. I do not believe in new laws restricting gun ownership and gun use.

Source: Fox News debate on MLK Day in Myrtle Beach, SC , Jan 16, 2012

2002: I will not chip away at MA's tough gun laws
In 1994 Romney had supported firearms-control measures opposed by the National Rifle Association: the so-called Brady Bill, which restricted the sale of handguns, and the assault weapons ban. During the 1994 senatorial campaign he had taunted: "That's not going to make me the hero of the NRA." He reinforced his support for these measures when he ran for governor in 2002, when he promised not to chip away at the Commonwealth's tough gun laws. Now as a presidential candidate, Romney presented himself disingenuously as a lifetime member of the NRA and a hunter of "varmints," which prompted the acerbic Boston Globe columnist Joan Vennochi to write: "Leave it to Mitt Romney to shoot himself in the foot with a gun he doesn't own."
Source: An Inside Look, by R.B.Scott, p.144-145 , Nov 22, 2011

2008: "Lifelong" devotion to hunting meant "small varmints"
Romney's efforts to get right with the right landed him in trouble. Running against Ted Kennedy for the Senate in 1994, he declared, "I don't line up with the NRA" on gun control. By 2008, Romney had reversed himself on his [and other issues], which quickly gave rise to charges of hypocrisy and opportunism. A YouTube video began making the rounds that captured him firmly stating his liberalish social views, comically juxtaposing them with his newly adopted arch-conservative stances. From then on, th flip-flopper label was firmly affixed to Mitt's forehead.
Oh, and also the one about this "lifelong" devotion to hunting, which turned out to mean he'd done it twice. "I'm not a big-game hunter," Romney said, then explained that his preferred prey were rodents, rabbits, and such--"small varmints, if you will."

He couldn't fathom why the caricature of him was sticking. When Romney's staff showed him the devastating YouTube video, his first reaction was ,"Boy, look how young I was back then."

Source: Game Change, by Heilemann & Halpern, p.293-295 , Jan 11, 2010

2002: My positions won't make me the hero of the NRA
Mitt Romney. When he ran for the Senate and for governor, he supported a ban on assault rifles and the Brady Bill's five-day waiting period for gun purchases. He proudly said those positions wouldn't make him "the hero of the NRA." As governor, he made Massachusetts the first state to permanently ban assault weapons. He has even flip-flopped about whether he owns any guns. In New Hampshire, he was asked his view on the Second Amendment. He responded that he had been a hunter "pretty much all my life." Later, red-faced aides of Romney had to admit that Romney had never had a hunting license, and under further questioning, Romney acknowledged that his "lifetime of hunting" was having shot at some birds during a Republican governors meeting during a fund-raising event and maybe shooting at "small varmints" when he was seventeen with his cousin.
Source: Do The Right Thing, by Mike Huckabee, p. 17-18 , Nov 18, 2008

GovWatch: 1994: did not “line up with the NRA”
Top Romney Flip Flops: #3. Gun Control:
Campaigning for the Senate in 1994, Romney said he favored strong gun laws and did not “line up with the NRA.” He signed up for “lifetime membership” of the NRA in August 2006 while pondering a presidential run, praising the group for “doing good things” and “supporting the right to bear arms.”

Source: GovWatch on 2008 campaign: “Top Ten Flip-Flops” , Feb 5, 2008

Support the 2nd Amendment AND the assault weapon ban
I do support the Second Amendment. I would have signed the assault weapon ban that came to his desk. I said I would have supported that and signed a similar bill in our state. It was a bill worked out, by the way, between pro-gun lobby and anti-gun lobby individuals. Both sides of the issue came together and found a way to provide relaxation in licensing requirements and allow more people to--to have guns for their own legal purposes. So we signed that in Massachusetts, and I’d support that at the federal level. It did not pass at the federal level. I do not believe we need new legislation. I do not support any new legislation of an assault weapon ban nature, including that against semiautomatic weapons. We have laws in place that, if they’re implemented & enforced, will provide the protection and the safety of the American people. I do support the right of individuals to bear arms, whether for hunting purposes or for protection purposes or any other reasons. That’s the right that people have
Source: 2008 GOP debate in Boca Raton Florida , Jan 24, 2008

I support the work of the NRA, but disagree sometimes
We should check on the backgrounds of people who are trying to purchase guns. We also should keep weapons of unusual lethality from being on the street. And finally, we should go after people who use guns in the commission of crimes or illegally, but we should not interfere with the right of law-abiding citizens to own guns, for their own personal protection or hunting or any other lawful purpose. I support the work of the NRA. I’m a member of the NRA. But do we line up on every issue? No, we don’t.
Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Dec 16, 2007

Ok to ban lethal weapons that threaten police
Q: Are you still for the Brady Bill?
A: The Brady Bill has changed over time, and, of course, technology has changed over time. I would have supported the original assault weapon ban. I signed an assault weapon ban as Massachusetts governor because it provided for a relaxation of licensing requirements for gun owners in Massachusetts, which was a big plus. And so both the pro-gun and the anti-gun lobby came together with a bill, and I signed that. And if there is determined to be, from time to time, a weapon of such lethality that it poses a grave risk to our law enforcement personnel, that’s something I would consider signing. There’s nothing of that nature that’s being proposed today in Washington. But I would look at weapons that pose extraordinary lethality.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Dec 16, 2007

Compromise MA gun bills were net gain for gun owner
During Romney’s term he signed several pieces of firearms regulation. A look at that regulation does not reveal an anti-gun Romney. Those bills are characterized as “net gains” for gun owners in a state where opinioned is weighed against them.
During his tenure, Gov. Romney was credited with several improvements to state laws, including protections for shooting clubs, restoration of the Inland Fish and Game Fund, and requirements that all new hunters pass a hunter safety course. He is also credited with relaxing manufacturing testing for some models of pistols.

In 2004, Gov. Romney signed a firearms reform bill that made permanent the ban on assault weapons as well as clarified and insured other rights and responsibilities for gun owners. It was a hard-fought compromise between interest groups on both sides of the issue. The NRA Gun Owners’ Action League, law enforcement, and Massachusetts gun owners endorsed the bill.

Source: The Man, His Values, & His Vision, p. 72-73 , Aug 31, 2007

Supports Second Amendment rights but also assault weapon ban
Q: As governor you signed into law one of the toughest restrictions on assault weapons in the country.
A: Let’s get the record straight. First of all, there’s no question that I support 2nd Amendment rights, but I also support an assault weapon ban. Look, I’ve been governor in a pretty tough state. You’ve heard of blue states. In the toughest of blue states, I made the toughest decisions and did what was right for America. I have conservative values.

Source: 2007 Republican Debate in South Carolina , May 15, 2007

Will support assault weapons bill and Brady Bill
The candidate reiterated his support for an assault weapons ban contained in Congress’ crime bill, and the Brady law which imposes a five-day waiting period on handgun purchases. ‘I don’t think (the waiting period) will have a massive effect on crime but I think it will have a positive effect,’ Romney said.
Source: Joe Battenfeld in Boston Herald , Aug 1, 1994
 
For the record, has President Obama ever refused to sign a restrictive gun regulation into law or stated that he would not sign a law further restricting gun rights if one were to happen upon his desk? I don’t think we should consider lack of opportunity to mean lack of desire; his own words state an interest in new gun regulations.
 
The Resources page at Activism has links to many sources for checking voting and political records.

What they lack is some additional programatic and appointment information and one other important fact.

The current POTUS's appointments and programs are clearly documented and such information for his rival will be a little less clearly documented. The governor enthusiastically support and signed a state AWB in Mass. after it was overwhelmingly passed by the legislature. POTUS has Fast and Furious, appointments of very anti judges and leadership in the administration, but has not signed any Anti laws (of course none of them have come out of Congress to be signed or not).

For the future of the 2A over the next 4 years we have to not only look at the 2 contenders for POTUS, but Congress and the SCOTUS judges. A president can't sign any pro or anti 2A law that doesn't get out of Congress for their signature or veto.
 
A professor once pointed out to me that a politician that acts against his stated stances gains more political power than one that stands by his words.

Pres. Obama *did* sign off on the transportation of firearms on AMTRAK if I recall correctly (or was it CC?)- which no doubt bought him some co-operation from those that would have otherwise opposed him.

Romney would gain more favor from the liberals with some Gun Control legislation than Obama would- they expect it of him.

I don't know why anyone expects their actions to match what they have said- they are all thieves and liars (except for Ron Paul- and he's just crazy).
 
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