Can you load precision ammo on a progressive?

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jmorris said:
An easier method to accomplish the same end result would be to helicoil the pin holes in the tool head and secure it to the press with shouldered screws.

The trend seems to go the other direction though. David Tubb (a rifle guy that’s won a lot of stuff) wrote about how he modified his 550 tool head, this fellow used his method and now sells them.

https://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek059.html

https://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/floating-dillon-toolheads-2/

Instead of being locked in one spot they are “floating” not unlike dies in a co-ax.
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The idea to put shims in the tool head slot wasnt my own. I cant claim credit for it...it was one of Dillions suggestions to try to make their "Belted magnum" super large powder measure drop usable charges. Their thinking was the little bit if slop was bouncing the measure, thus throwing off the drop.
That suggestion, along with polishing the metal and lower funnel in the measure to a mirror finish and put a coat of good quality car wax on it.

Did that too.

Didn’t do jack to improve the drops.
 
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First thanks for posting that. I missed it in the hard copy and when I checked the site it hadn't been uploaded yet. This months had a comparison of seating depth between a 550 and a Rockchucker. The Dillon won that one too :thumbdown:

Nature Boy said:
However, one man’s precision is another man’s barn door wide
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I guess that is the crux of this matter. I've thrown the 3 powders that he tested the most and I think that a +/- 0.3 grain bell-curve type spread is pretty typical. If you can't, or won't accept that then you have to get your powder into the case some other way. As was said, bench rest shooters throw charges and that is a fair test of precision shooting.

A shooting buddy of mine tested a Dillon vs. Harrell and thought the Dillon was better. I'd guess that he was throwing Varget. He's an engineer and a accomplished shooter so I trust what he said.
 
jmorris said:
That would make more sense but why put your cell phone in airplane mode, to not skew the results then post the data in an out of order way from the way it was recorded initially and post them as subsequent drops?
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Ive been using electronic scales for a long time. Reloading, and at work. Not the same scales of coarse, but NEVER have I seen cell phones or lighting interfere with the scales. Just doesnt happen, at least that Ive seen.
I use mechanical scales at home to verify the weights shown on the electronic scales after doing calibrations, and even occasionally during a load session.

Never seen either one...my rangemaster 750, or the chargemaster scale...ever show an inaccurate weight.
 
jmorris said:
Clicked on the link and find his data odd and not what I would expect.

Why after setting them all at 40.0, are all of the first charges low and go up for the heaviest to be the last drops?

I would have expected variations to be somewhat random.
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I would suspect somehow the data was sorted by weight instead of time.
 
Megawatt maker said:
Their thinking was the little bit if slop was bouncing the measure, thus throwing off the drop.
Click to expand...

Not knocking their train of thought but if you are having issues, I would take a card from the industrial playbook When it comes to hopper dispensing and flow and go the opposite direction and vibrate the contents.

https://www.navco.us/product/pneumatic-vibrators-piston/bh-bin-hopper/

If you search powder measure vibrator, you can find posts from others that have gone that route.
 
Megawatt maker said:
Ive been using electronic scales for a long time. Reloading, and at work. Not the same scales of coarse, but NEVER have I seen cell phones or lighting interfere with the scales. Just doesnt happen, at least that Ive seen.
I use mechanical scales at home to verify the weights shown on the electronic scales after doing calibrations, and even occasionally during a load session.

Never seen either one...my rangemaster 750, or the chargemaster scale...ever show an inaccurate weight.
Click to expand...
I've got a Franklin Arsenal scale that was intermittently inaccurate. I have a beam scale and check weights to confirm my observations. I finally figured out that the fluorescent light fixture on my desk was causing interference. Turned it off and problem solved. Granted, I had it on because I needed the added light. I'm considering converting it to LED. I've seen maintenance at work upgrading the fixtures with long LED bulbs. I know they rewire the fixture, taking the ballast out of the lineup.
 
jmorris said:
Not knocking their train of thought but if you are having issues, I would take a card from the industrial playbook When it comes to hopper dispensing and flow and go the opposite direction and vibrate the contents.

https://www.navco.us/product/pneumatic-vibrators-piston/bh-bin-hopper/

If you search powder measure vibrator, you can find posts from others that have gone that route.
Click to expand...
Lol..
Thats a variation of the final suggestion I got from Dillion before I just gave up even trying to make it work.

They told me to tape a fish filter pump to the hopper.

My response was something along the lines of...thats less than creepy engineering, and if thats all the better they can do...they best go back to the drawing board.

My thoughts are..if I have to go to such measures just to make something work at a minimum acceptable level...then that device is just plain defective off the drawing board.
 
jmorris said:
Not knocking their train of thought but if you are having issues, I would take a card from the industrial playbook When it comes to hopper dispensing and flow and go the opposite direction and vibrate the contents.

https://www.navco.us/product/pneumatic-vibrators-piston/bh-bin-hopper/

If you search powder measure vibrator, you can find posts from others that have gone that route.
Click to expand...
I've got a back massager that I use on my Dillon powder dispensers. I was using a power drill on impact and holding the chuck with my hand. I bought a cheap $10 massager, though, and it works just as well. This is for pistol loads and I only do that after loading the dispenser. I rely on the vibration caused by loading to keep it flowing right. I use CFE Pistol, WST, and TiteGroup, primarily.

I haven't loaded rifle on the 550, but I would imagine the added resistance of FL resizing might dampen things down, so you might not get the same effect.

Frankly, I wouldn't have any problem strapping a corded massager to the side of the dispenser and just leaving it turned on. It is a progressive, after all. You go through a good bit of powder in a short amount of time.
 
jmorris said:
That would make more sense but why put your cell phone in airplane mode, to not skew the results then post the data in an out of order way from the way it was recorded initially and post them as subsequent drops?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it just doesn't make much sense other than it looks neater on paper.
 
Megawatt maker said:
My thoughts are..if I have to go to such measures just to make something work at a minimum acceptable level...then that device is just plain defective off the drawing board.
Click to expand...

If that was an accurate assement of their design, and not just a desicription of your problem, woudn't there be a lot more folks having this issue? It's easy to see that you're cheesed off at Dillion, but you are a sample size of 1.

The only powder I can't get to meter in an acceptable manor in progressive mode it IMR4064. All the others have no issues, for me

I guess I'll put this back up here again;

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ariation-of-the-dillon-powder-thrower.849682/
 
Nature Boy said:
If that was an accurate assement of their design, and not just a desicription of your problem, woudn't there be a lot more folks having this issue? It's easy to see that you're cheesed off at Dillion, but you are a sample size of 1.

The only powder I can't get to meter in an acceptable manor in progressive mode it IMR4064. All the others have no issues, for me

I guess I'll put this back up here again;

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ariation-of-the-dillon-powder-thrower.849682/
Click to expand...
Umm no. Not a sample of "one" by any measure. Their forum is loaded with guys with the same complaint.

As I also said....their measure works SO good..they recommend a Redding for stick powders...on their very own website.

Kinda makes my case dont ya think?

Not to flame you...this is all good natured...respect to you!

But as far as that link you just posted..

"There are liars, Damn liars...then there is statatics"

In good humor sir...in good humor!
 
Megawatt maker said:
Their measures work so good....they recommend on their website that you use a Redding BR 3 for extruded powders. They even list the part number you need to adapt to a Dillion press.
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I do not have any experience with extruded powder of any kind, so maybe I'm the wrong person to comment, but from what I've read they're a problem - due to their very nature - for many (most? all?) volumetric measures. So I'm not sure what you're expecting. Also, you knock Dillon for their powder measure's supposedly poor performance with such powders while at the same time claiming that Dillon themselves recommend another powder drop. So they're saying "Don't used this measure for this powder", while you say "The measure you told me not to use sucks and it's all your fault!". It's like buying a vespa and thinking the fact it won't do 180mph is a design flaw (after the vespa salesman told you Suzuki literbikes were sold across the street). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're the problem, not them. If anything, it's a sign of integrity when a manufacturer points you to a product other than their own in order to assure you have the best experience.
 
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azrocks said:
I do not have any experience with extruded powder of any kind, so maybe I'm the wrong person to comment, but from what I've read they're a problem - due to their very nature - for many (most? all?) volumetric measures. So I'm not sure what you're expecting. Also, you knock Dillon for their powder measure's supposedly poor performance with such powders while at the same time claiming that Dillon themselves recommend another powder drop. So they're saying "Don't used this measure for this powder", while you say "The measure you told me not to use sucks and it's all your fault!". It's like buying a vespa and thinking the fact it won't do 180mph is a design flaw (after the vespa salesman told you Suzuki literbikes were sold across the street). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're the problem, not them. If anything, it's a sign of integrity when a manufacturer points you to a product other than their own in order to assure you have the best experience.
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First, most of my communication with Dillion happened over 10 years ago, just after I bought my 550B and Belted magnum measure.

At that time, they didnt recommend the Redding..thats something they more recently started doing.

I dont/never expected a perfect drop each pull. I understand and accept the industry standard +/-.1.

Neither of their powdermeasures I own will come close to that. In fact, the Belted magnum one is DANGEROUS to even use. It will drop +/- over a grain.

If you are pushing max load....and it drops +1 grain...kaboom.

Of coarse, then dont use it for max load..they say...yada yada yada
Im not going down this rabbit hole anymore.
Ive been here, done that, a long time ago.

Simple fact is...their measures are complete garbage.

If you agree, fine, if you dont, fine.

Their record speaks for itself. Like others have said, lots of advise to install other brands on a Dillion press...but Dillion measures on another Brand press?
Not so much.

So...there it is.

I drank the blue cool aide...but I aint drunk on the stuff
 
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Megawatt maker said:
Ive been using electronic scales for a long time. Reloading, and at work. Not the same scales of coarse, but NEVER have I seen cell phones or lighting interfere...

Never seen either one...my rangemaster 750, or the chargemaster scale...ever show an inaccurate weight.
Click to expand...

I too have been using digital scales for decades but I wish RCBS would publish what the different settings (parameters) actually do.

I am not a big fan of things changing without me knowing and the auto zero “feature” on the chargemaster is one I would like to turn off.



I understand they created it so it gives them the appearance of being stable while warming up but anyone that knows it’s there knows, it’s like cleaning your room by stuffing all the junk under the bed or in the closet. It doesn’t eliminate The problem, just hides it.

My old 505 with a photoelectric switch is more precise than my Chargemasters and doesn’t change it’s zero.

 
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Megawatt maker said:
I dont/never expected a perfect drop each pull. I understand and accept the industry standard +/-.1.
Click to expand...

I've never seen such a claim made for any powder measure. That might be true for ball powders in general but extruded powder does not meter consistently within that tolerance. Multiply that by the large kernal powders generally used in magnum loading and its nigh impossible. I've thrown enough powder to expect +/- .3 grains with Varget and similar powders in the multiple measures that I've tried, and wouldn't even attempt 4350 or standard 4831 in a rotary drum measure.

There are some slow burning ball powders that might get thrown more accurately and be appropriate for magnum cartridges. Magpro comes to mind.

I think that the Belding and Mull Visible measure is the best option for throwing large kernal powders. Available on ebay and I think that you can still buy magnum charge tubes from B&M.
 
Laphroaig said:
I've never seen such a claim made for any powder measure. That might be true for ball powders in general but extruded powder does not meter consistently within that tolerance. Multiply that by the large kernal powders generally used in magnum loading and its nigh impossible. I've thrown enough powder to expect +/- .3 grains with Varget and similar powders in the multiple measures that I've tried, and wouldn't even attempt 4350 or standard 4831 in a rotary drum measure.

There are some slow burning ball powders that might get thrown more accurately and be appropriate for magnum cartridges. Magpro comes to mind.

I think that the Belding and Mull Visible measure is the best option for throwing large kernal powders. Available on ebay and I think that you can still buy magnum charge tubes from B&M.
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Here is my major point of contention with Dillion.

I bought their Magnum measure because it was advertised as the measure to use for big magnums.
At that time, I was feeding 4 300 RUMs (my 3 and my buddy had one), so loading a larger volume on a progressive was preferable to hand weighing each charge (I didnt have a chargemaster then).
Also at that time, there were fewer powders suitable for my needs...those that were available (7828, Retumbo, H1000, a few others that slip my mind) were all large stick powders. The very few ball were around and were not to be found easily, and even then, not fully suitable for the heavy bullets, if I recall correctly.

So..that left the big sticks, which do not work in the Belted Magnum measure Dillion peddled.
Or any measure, according to some on this thread. But they still sell it.

So, maybe you can see why, yes, Im still jacked at Dillion over it...even 10 years later.


Wish it worked. Not like I haven't tried. I did everything they told me to try...all but the vibration thing..which goes too far IMO. If thats what it takes, maybe they should redesign that into it.
 
Walkalong said:
lol, well, maybe not on your press with that measure, but no law says you have to use that measure, or even drop powder automatically. :)
Click to expand...

When I was doing my hunting rounds, I used the press to drop ~0.5gr under charge into the case, poured it into balance pan, and trickled in the missing bits, and poured that back into the case. Worked out quite well for me. The balance registered each grain of powder near the balance line.

So, I agree with you. Mostly. ;)
 
Megawatt maker said:
Here is my major point of contention with Dillion.

I bought their Magnum measure because it was advertised as the measure to use for big magnums.
At that time, I was feeding 4 300 RUMs (my 3 and my buddy had one), so loading a larger volume on a progressive was preferable to hand weighing each charge (I didnt have a chargemaster then).
Also at that time, there were fewer powders suitable for my needs...those that were available (7828, Retumbo, H1000, a few others that slip my mind) were all large stick powders. The very few ball were around and were not to be found easily, and even then, not fully suitable for the heavy bullets, if I recall correctly.

So..that left the big sticks, which do not work in the Belted Magnum measure Dillion peddled.
Or any measure, according to some on this thread. But they still sell it.

So, maybe you can see why, yes, Im still jacked at Dillion over it...even 10 years later.


Wish it worked. Not like I haven't tried. I did everything they told me to try...all but the vibration thing..which goes too far IMO. If thats what it takes, maybe they should redesign that into it.
Click to expand...

Was just out in the garage setting up a new tool head & came upon this. From page 16 of the 550B manual, circa 2016:

"Extruded pencil type powders will not flow smoothly through smaller sized powder funnels because of their length. Another problem with extruded powders is getting them into small necked cases. Many times these powders will "bridge" across the case mouth and cause spillage and erratic charges. There is no fast way of dispensing these powders, and if you insist on using them in small mouth cases it is best to weight every charge by hand. Modern ball type powders will do for most reloading situations. These powders will do everything the pencil powders will do, but without this problem. Warning: Do not use I.M.R. pencil lead type powder in cases smaller than .30 caliber".

Perhaps their definition of small-neck needs to be expanded up a hair, but could this explain your problems, particularly when you speak of 'big' stick powders? Have you considered that any inaccuracy inherent in the flow of extruded powders would be magnified by the sheer volume you're putting into each case?
 
FWIW there are two excellent groups on fb that address this.

high speed reloading of long range ammo

and

precisioN Powder dispensers

last year I bought most of the stuff to load 6dasher on one of my dillon1050. But I haven’t even taken it out of the box yet. Been too busy.
 
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