Carrying a 1911

[James Bondrock]

Would it even be concievable to carry a 1911 cocked and unlocked, with a round chambered, and only using the grip safety for safety?

 

[chrisinmo]

I can not imagine why someone would chose to carry cocked and unlocked. I have seen people extoll the virtues of actions with no manual safety by saying there is not manual safety to fumble with. The safety on the 1911 can be easily disengaged before the gun can be brought to target from the holster. If smeone is unable to consistently get the safety off in taht manner they have no business carrying a 1911 until they get significantly more practice with that gun! It is not that difficult to master taking the safety off during the draw.

 

[Edward429451]

The only reason I can think of of why some one would consider carrying a 1911 cocked & unlocked, is that they are unfamilier with the design and scared that they'd forget to release it on the draw.

natedog, if you train with the 1911 as you should, drawing and shooting/dryfireing, it will become 2nd nature to release the safety and will not slow you down one whit.

My safety gets released at about a 45 deg angle as it comes up from the draw and I have never 'missed' the smallish safety or forgot to release it. It takes no conscious effort to do it, it just happens. (It's guarenteed to annoy your wife or GF going around the house drawing down / practicing, but thats what it takes to ingrain it to muscle memory!!)

Practice practice practice...

 

[happyguy]

All this fear of carrying "cocked and unlocked" yet that's how folks carry their Glocks every day. And no, a modern 1911 won't discharge if the hammer slips off the sear, that's one of the unintendid benefits of the firing pin safety.

BTW, I carry "cocked and locked".

Regards,
Happyguy

 

[Edward429451]

Yeah but carrying a glock chambered is carrying it unlocked and uncocked.

 

[James Bondrock]

All this fear of carrying "cocked and unlocked" yet that's how folks carry their Glocks every day. And no, a modern 1911 won't discharge if the hammer slips off the sear, that's one of the unintendid benefits of the firing pin safety.

This comparison was inevitable. I know the Glock has a light trigger with no manual safety (more on this later), and I know you should never put your finger on the trigger until the sights are on target. Carrying the 1911 in Condition Zero is not an accident waiting to happen, thanks to the grip and firing pin safeties (if a Series 80). The problem is from quick manipulation under stress. The 1911 has little or no takeup in the trigger, followed by a crisp light release. It is going to be easy to touch the trigger when drawing the gun quickly, and once that happens, even the firing pin safety will not stop the gun from firing. The Glock has a lot of takeup in its trigger, followed by a spongy release that requires even more movement. It gives you a hedge against such an unintentional discharge. Training to never put your finger on the trigger until your sights are on the target is well and good, but it may not stay with you under the stress of mortal combat. I have never heard of any combat trainer that advocates carrying a 1911 in Condition Zero.

 

[natedog]

How so edward? On a Glock if you pull the trigger it goes bang. It is cocked.

 

[BluesBear]

Simplified explanation

Because a Glock is termed a "safe action" pistol.

What Safe Action means is that the striker is NOT at full cock, it is, in essence, half-cocked or pre-tensioned.
The striker (firing pin) is blocked from forward movement.

The gun can't fire until the trigger is pulled, cocking the striker and removing the block.

 

[natedog]

I realize that Glocks are "half-cocked", but for the point of discussion, they are fuctinally cocked, in that if you pull the trigger, they will fire.

 

[BluesBear]

For the point of discussion, so will a Double Action Revolver.
And they are functionally uncocked and unlocked.


Would anyone advocate carrying a S&W Model 19 cocked?
How about a Ruger SP101?

After all if the hammer fell, the internal block would prevent the firing pin from hitting the primer.





So from what you are saying carrying a S&W revolver cocked, or carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked is just as safe as carrying a Glock?

:banghead:

 

[Edward429451]

Yeah, what Bluesbear said.

For discussion it may be thought of as cocked, but for carry it is not cocked. I had some misgigivings about keeping one in the pipe until I learned how its set up inside and how it functions, now I keep it chambered with total confidence (in my ability to keep my finger off the trigger!).

I'm still looking to sell or trade mine for another 1911 type, but not for safety issues and thats another thread.

 

[OF]

The gun can't fire until the trigger is pulled

How is this, functionally, different from what was proposed (1911, safety off)? The 1911 won't fire unless you pull the trigger in that condition either...and you have the grip safety, which the Glock does not have.

I think DMK has a good point about holstering, but that is also no different from the Glock's action...and that's a Safe Action!

- Gabe

PS: Borodin, not everyone who disagrees with you is doing so just for the sake of argument. They just might actually think you're wrong. And they just might have shown how polite they are by ignoring your thinly veiled condescension, as well. See, some of us have been carrying guns 'for a long time' too, but have yet to come to your conclusions...but you never know, maybe we will after we finally get to your experience level.

I never carry any gun with a round in the chamber. If you carry a gun long enough, you will find that it CAN be taken away from you. I would rather know that it has an empty chamber for that reason. And its just plain SAFE!

I think your decision to carry, as a civilian, a weapon in an unready state is a major mistake. I would never advise a student to carry in that condition as it can most certainly get them dead. How adept are you at racking that slide with one hand? Not the easiest thing in the world...

 

[Sean Smith]

I never carry any gun with a round in the chamber. If you carry a gun long enough, you will find that it CAN be taken away from you. I would rather know that it has an empty chamber for that reason. And its just plain SAFE!

Using that logic, criminals should be very happy that your gun isn't loaded, too.

IIRC, the U.S. Army field manual for the 1911 advised carrying with an empty chamber in rear areas, and cocked & locked when expecting action with the enemy.

 

[JohnKSa]

Like all of this hasn't been beaten to death 100 times.

How about something new to kick around?

The Glock trigger guard width is about 0.57". What's the typical width of a 1911 trigger guard?

Has anyone noticed that the trigger design of the Glock deflects a snagging object toward the top of the trigger where it can't operate the trigger safety? Where does the design of a 1911 trigger deflect a snagging object to?

There are two objects preventing a Glock striker from moving any time a round is chambered. How many objects prevent a 1911 firing pin from moving when ALL the safeties are engaged?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Has anyone noticed that the trigger design of the Glock deflects a snagging object toward the top of the trigger where it can't operate the trigger safety? Where does the design of a 1911 trigger deflect a snagging object to?

I sure as heck wouldnt want to rely on that.