Carrying a cap rifle safely--half cock?

[Cosmoline]

Pardon me with another stupid question, but is it possible to safely carry a cap fired ml rifle on half cock? I understand the half cock isn't really much of a safety, but is there any other way? If hunting, do you simply wait till you see the animal to put a cap on the nipple or prime the pan? I can't see that working too well.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

When deer hunting, I load before getting into the woods and then cap after I'm at my stand. I do set my hawken on the half cock, but one must be very careful. DO NOT lower the hammer onto the cap. a bump on the hammer or a slip of your thumb will be enough to set it off. I have walked through the woods trailing game with mine on half cock, as that is the only way to keep it ready to fire, BUT one must remember and practice ALL the safe handling rules and make sure where your barrel is pointing and finger off the trigger.

When I use my flintlock, I also have to put it on half cock after priming the flash pan. Same rules apply.

hope this helps.

My biggest advice is to get to know the gun and it's quirks, with it unloaded, try a few things on halfcock before you hit the woods. With it unloaded, walk around the house, or if in a rural area outside and bump it around to see if it will hold. toss it on the bed, hit it butt first on a carpeted floor, etc. you'll soon see if the halfcock is strong or not.

 

[ED21]

From my experience, yes, half cock is the safest way to carry if you want to have a cap in place or the pan primed. Have to keep an eye on the cap though. They tend to disappear when needed while carrying like this. OF course it is safer to wait and cap or prime just before the shot. Now, that is not too practical in most situations.

Oh yeah, there are no stupid questions. Some people are not as informed as others. Therefore, ask! Anyone chiding one for asking a question, especially about firearms, are not to be paid attention too.

CH and I were typing at the same time and he hit the post button first. He has a good answer.

 

[StrawHat]

For a caplock, a safe way to carry it loaded and capped is to place a piece of stiff leather between the hammer and cap then lower the hammer to hold the leather on he cap. When you pull the hammer to full cock the leather falls away and you are ready to go.

For still hunting this is a good technique.

For my flintlock I use a frizzen cover and rest the hammer on half cock. You have to remember to remove the cover when you need to fire.

 

[Cosmoline]

Losing the caps is a real possibility, so the leather method sounds good. But can't the pressure of the hammers set them off even with a leather impingement? Put it another way, on centerfire rounds the pin is with the hammer or driven by it from the outside in. With the cap and ball system on ML's it appears to me as though the nipple is serving as pin. So even if the steel hammer doesn't contact the cap, the pressure of being pressed down can set it off. So a hard knock could still fire it even with leather between the hammer and the live nipple.

 

[rcmodel]

Leather between the hammer & capped nipple is in no way safe!

The cap can still be driven down on the nipple and fire, leather or no leather.

Don't believe it?
Try whacking the hammer spur with a rubber mallet and see what happens next!

The half-cock notch on most locks is a pretty robust piece of metal.
That is what it is there for.
Use it!

rcmodel

 

[mykeal]

The half-cock notch is only as good as the trigger sear and vice versa. Either can be worn to the point where the combination is unsafe to use as a safety.

I agree with rcmodel's comment about leather as well. While it does serve to soften the impact of the hammer hitting the cap one can still drive the deflagrant material in the cap onto the hard metal nipple with sufficient impact to cause detonation. Leather is better than nothing between the hammer and cap, but it's not sufficient by itself.

In the end the only real safe situations are the ones you create. Always treat the gun as if it's ready to fire - that's the only thing that really works. Use the half-cock notch or not as you wish, but don't trust your life or someone else's to it.

 

[mp510]

When you hunt with a caplock, cap the nipple when and carry it half cock. As long as your lcok mechanism is mechanically sound, and you follow the basic safety rules, you should be fine.

 

[Cosmoline]

That's what I suspected re. the leather strap.

With that in mind, how can one keep the caps in place when moving around? Won't they tend to get knocked off?

 

[rcmodel]

A proper sized cap should be a tight press fit on the nipple. There is also some slight differance between brands of the same size.

Have to make sure you got the right size, or they will fall off.

rcmodel

 

[Omnivore]

I'm with RC. There's little chance a good fitting cap is ever going to fall off. When hunting, I keep mine capped and on half-cock from the time I get out of the pickup until I get back to the pickup-- hunting all the way.

 

[arcticap]

I've heard of a device called a Kap Kover, a brass cap that fits over the capped nipple and under the hammer, and which falls away when the hammer is cocked.
A device like this would be safest if it was taller than the half cock notch so that if it was dislodged by accident, the hammer would still stop at the half cock notch.
I've heard that a tire valve cover fits relatively perfect over a capped nipple, but I've never tried it, judged if it was high enough or ever even thought that there was a need to cover a nipple to act as a safety. Just always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, just like with any mechanical safety which could fail.
The tire valve cover could keep rain and snow off if someone thought that it would be beneficial though.
Another item that weatherproofs the capped nipple is aquarium pump tubing (at some Walmarts). It might also be able to serve as a safety cushion if it was extra long and tested to be stout enough I guess... and just pull & remove by hand before firing (if it doesn't take the cap off too). But as always, simply being safe with the muzzle is the most reliable method. Just try to make sure the hammer doesn't get snagged on brush or pulled back in any other way to risk it's accidental release. Like they say, anything is possible, even getting struck by a bolt of lightning...it happens but very rarely.
If the 1/2 cock safety is really a worry, then cap with a capper after the animal is spotted.

 

[Cosmoline]

Half cocks are minty on this one, and I've tightened them up myself. But they're still just half cocks. As always a good smack can unseat the hammer. I suppose that's just one of the risk factors of going afield with a smoke pole.

 

[scrat]

Agree with straw hat. it would be a good idea to get a scrap piece of leather and place in between the nipple and hammer. it would be easy to remove but just makes you and everyone else around you a lot saffer. the worst part about an accident is not what you did. but what you did to who. Once an accident is done you cant take it back. you can only prevent it.

 

[StrawHat]

Any mechanical safety can fail.

All mechanical safeties will fail.

If you depend on a mechanical safety, hunt alone.

The leather trick is one that has been used, for maybe a century.

I have never heard of anyone who actually used it in the field having a problem.

I have heard a lot of stories about half cocks going bad.

Maybe if you used a thin piece of glove leather it would fail.

Not sure why I would carry a rubber mallet while hunting but each to his own.

Cosmoline, good luck!

 

[Cosmoline]

The point about the rubber mallet is you can check your leather strip at the range that way, safely. It roughly replicates a ground impact. Have you ever tested it?

 

[Wildfire]

1/2 cock.

Hey there:
the 1/2 cock is the safety. Stiff leather under the hammer sounds like a good way of getting some bad results sooner or latter. Caps rarely fall off.
1/2 cocks don't let go unless there is something wrong with the trigger.
I hate to disagree with any one but that leather thing does not sound safe to me at all. That would never be recomended in an owners manual. The 1/2 cock is.............

 

[scrat]

ya but putting a gun in half cock. With a piece of leather on top of the cap or a leather cover on the hammer would add a lot more safety to what you have.

 

[PeashooterJoe]

Scrap leather pad is more safe, half cock failed on me once. I was lucky was at home range, capped set in cradle turned and boom. Scared the ever living you know what out of me. The tumbler had failed and had to be replaced. Well once bit and twice shy of half cock ever since. I saw an original english flint lock had a mechanical safety on the lock. Seems they were concerned about safety in the 1700's also. Your mileage and opinions may vary. PeashooterJoe

 

[bigjohnson]

In the N-SSA, our rifles have to pass inspection before every skirmish. The safety notch must be strong enough to hold the weight of the gun. We test that by putting the hammer at half-cock, then suspending the gun by the trigger, so that the entire weight of the gun is bearing on the half-cock notch.
If your rifle will pass that test, you can safely carry it with the hammer at half-cock... which is what the half-cock notch was designed for.

 

[Cosmoline]

Hey, that's a fine idea! Thankee. I just checked and my half cock notches are sound enough to hold even with the full weight of the double gun on them.

 

[Pancho]

Well, I've come up with another brainfart tool since this is the second brainfart we'll refer to it as the brainfart II. When I get the time I'll build a prototype and test it and if it has any promise I'll send pictures.

 

[kycajun]

Cap or Uncapped

This seems like a no brainer to me. We always assume a gun is loaded. I hunted many years with a muzzleloader. I cap it
as soon as I enter the woods. I never point it at anything or anyone unless I intend to shoot it. I always leave in half cocked position when i am hunting. Now when I need to do anything that may cause me to get shot like climbing a deer stand I will uncap it. I never carry it capped anyplace except the woods. Remember many unloaded guns have killed people.

 

[goon]

I'd think that they're probably as safe on a muzzleloader as they would be on an old lever action or single barrel or rabbit ear double barrel shotgun.
Which is to say use it but treat it like any other safety on any other gun - meaning use it but don't trust it.
It's there to supplement your brain, not replace it.

I saw an original english flint lock had a mechanical safety on the lock. Seems they were concerned about safety in the 1700's also.

I think that is called a doglock. IIRC, it was kind of an earlier type of flintlock that used a hook (the dog) to hold the flint away from the frizzen. I think it's use predated the half-cock notch because most of the guns you see with them seem to be earlier and the later guns with the half-cock don't usually have them.
But I am could be wrong - not real educated on muzzloaders.

 

[grimjaw]

DO NOT lower the hammer onto the cap. a bump on the hammer or a slip of your thumb will be enough to set it off.

Good first answer. Speaking from the experience of having the hammer slip from underneath my thumb and landing on a capped, loaded .54 caliber pistol (that was fortunately safely pointed downrange), I'd wait to cap the thing until I got in place.

jm