NavyLCDR
member
Enough reading here on THR will lead one to take just about anything they say in CCW classes with a grain of salt!
Carrying a firearm without CCW? (MN)
- Thread starter RoostRider
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Enough reading here on THR will lead one to take just about anything they say in CCW classes with a grain of salt!
RoostRider
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- Mar 28, 2008
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With the utmost in respect for differing opinions, and an open mind to the thoughts expressed here.... I want to continue to clarify here... as noted, I was not asking if it was a good idea... I know it is (because I have experienced it)... I also know its not as good of an idea as carrying loaded, which is why I will be taking the course... anyways, since I wasn't asking how good of an idea it was, I didn't clarify everything about the situation, and the jumping to conclusions is getting to me....
OK- the first time, I did fire the weapon, and it was returned to me, and from the cops all the way to the county attorney's and through the chief of police (all of whom I had to deal with to get its return), they all agreed I was in the right.... and yes, I went and got the gun and returned... and the perp was not on my property when I fired... in fact, he was in the same place as the second perp, just outside my fence... but still a threat...
As it was explained to me, by the people responsible for prosecuting me had I been in violation of the law, I am absolutely allowed to clear my property and protect the inhabitants of my home by confronting an agressor outside of my home instead.... no one even batted an eye about it, and the prosecuting attorney wrote the chief of police requesting that my firearm be returned to me....
A very similar situation occured the other night.... I was not in the locked safety of my home (jumping to conclusions), my GF was not out of harms way (jumping to conclusions... hence why the door was not locked!), and the perp was still pursuing me/my GF the last I knew (while loading my gun)....
I made some mistakes, but getting my gun and returning to my yard to confront a violent assailant who had now turned his attention to my GF was not one of them... not morally, nor legally in MN... I had already tried the retreat method by returning to my yard and calling the police... when that clearly wasn't working, I chose to get a gun...
My only mistake was in telling my GF to come inside instead of grabbing her by the collar and dragging her in the house.... but either way, I have a right to clear my property of threats... even if she was not outside.... (been through it, so tell me whatever you want... I know)
For the record, there were also two other friends of mine outside in or near my yard whom I did not know where they were to notify them of this threat.... again, I am not obliged to leave them out in my yard with a legitimate threat just because I am safe inside my house... not morally, not legally....
I am confident I did the right thing... and having talked to the county attorneys, investigating officers, the cops, and even the chief of police about it, I feel pretty confident about those choices...
The only thing they asked me was if I was "in fear of great danger" from the perp, to me or anyone in my house.... proving fear of a guy screaming at the top of his lungs in a rage that he is going to come over there and kill you is pretty easy (especially when he is doing just that by coming at you)... I don't have to retreat any further than he poses a threat to someone I care about, or even choose to protect from grave bodily harm...
I appreciate the input on the issue, but I strongly disagree with most of your's logic on this issue...
I thank you all for the legal advice (yes, that's why it is under "legal" instead of "tactics"... since I wasn't asking about the tactic, but rather the legal)... I am glad to know the facts about it, and always interested in hearing what others think (even about the tactics, which again, I realize are not ideal)...
I wasn't asking because I want to be some vigilante without a permit running around threatening people with a gun that I keep unloaded until I sense a threat... I want to know if I am carrying on my property, where it's at if I step off my property, legally speaking.... I think I got that from this thread, so thanks to everyone....
Feel free to discuss this more in this thread if you want.... but kindly stop from jumping to conclusions (who said I was in my locked house and came back to confront? who said my GF was safe from the situation? He was a legitimate threat to several people I care about, right there in my yard!! my duty to retreat (if it exists by case law) was clearly at an end when I chose to make my stand)... and if you do choose to jump to conclusions, at least jump to new conclusions that weren't already covered (IE- read the circumstances without reading into it- and read what I have said about it and comment with that knowledge)
Thanks again for all the input guys... even those I don't agree with I can respect what you have to say about it all....
OK- the first time, I did fire the weapon, and it was returned to me, and from the cops all the way to the county attorney's and through the chief of police (all of whom I had to deal with to get its return), they all agreed I was in the right.... and yes, I went and got the gun and returned... and the perp was not on my property when I fired... in fact, he was in the same place as the second perp, just outside my fence... but still a threat...
As it was explained to me, by the people responsible for prosecuting me had I been in violation of the law, I am absolutely allowed to clear my property and protect the inhabitants of my home by confronting an agressor outside of my home instead.... no one even batted an eye about it, and the prosecuting attorney wrote the chief of police requesting that my firearm be returned to me....
A very similar situation occured the other night.... I was not in the locked safety of my home (jumping to conclusions), my GF was not out of harms way (jumping to conclusions... hence why the door was not locked!), and the perp was still pursuing me/my GF the last I knew (while loading my gun)....
I made some mistakes, but getting my gun and returning to my yard to confront a violent assailant who had now turned his attention to my GF was not one of them... not morally, nor legally in MN... I had already tried the retreat method by returning to my yard and calling the police... when that clearly wasn't working, I chose to get a gun...
My only mistake was in telling my GF to come inside instead of grabbing her by the collar and dragging her in the house.... but either way, I have a right to clear my property of threats... even if she was not outside.... (been through it, so tell me whatever you want... I know)
For the record, there were also two other friends of mine outside in or near my yard whom I did not know where they were to notify them of this threat.... again, I am not obliged to leave them out in my yard with a legitimate threat just because I am safe inside my house... not morally, not legally....
I am confident I did the right thing... and having talked to the county attorneys, investigating officers, the cops, and even the chief of police about it, I feel pretty confident about those choices...
The only thing they asked me was if I was "in fear of great danger" from the perp, to me or anyone in my house.... proving fear of a guy screaming at the top of his lungs in a rage that he is going to come over there and kill you is pretty easy (especially when he is doing just that by coming at you)... I don't have to retreat any further than he poses a threat to someone I care about, or even choose to protect from grave bodily harm...
I appreciate the input on the issue, but I strongly disagree with most of your's logic on this issue...
I thank you all for the legal advice (yes, that's why it is under "legal" instead of "tactics"... since I wasn't asking about the tactic, but rather the legal)... I am glad to know the facts about it, and always interested in hearing what others think (even about the tactics, which again, I realize are not ideal)...
I wasn't asking because I want to be some vigilante without a permit running around threatening people with a gun that I keep unloaded until I sense a threat... I want to know if I am carrying on my property, where it's at if I step off my property, legally speaking.... I think I got that from this thread, so thanks to everyone....
Feel free to discuss this more in this thread if you want.... but kindly stop from jumping to conclusions (who said I was in my locked house and came back to confront? who said my GF was safe from the situation? He was a legitimate threat to several people I care about, right there in my yard!! my duty to retreat (if it exists by case law) was clearly at an end when I chose to make my stand)... and if you do choose to jump to conclusions, at least jump to new conclusions that weren't already covered (IE- read the circumstances without reading into it- and read what I have said about it and comment with that knowledge)
Thanks again for all the input guys... even those I don't agree with I can respect what you have to say about it all....
Soldiersurfs
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- Sep 25, 2008
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Im not trying to be a smart ass , but .....some one was comming down the street anouncing they were going to kill you and your girlfriend just stayed there in the yard?
NavyLCDR
member
I don't have much doubt at all that it is "law" in MN. My point isn't just about this in MN. It's about the American legal system in general. It's just that Joe Schmoe gets arrested for doing something and he goes to court and he says, but in the statutes what I did was not illegal. And then the legal system comes back and says, yeah, well the courts have deemed it to be illegal in 1942 in State vs Smith they ruled that....
It just sucks that we as Americans can't live by written statutes. IMHO if the government wants to make it "law" they should codify it in statutes instead of tucking it away in the archives of case law where the average citizen isn't going to either have the time, resources, or care enough to dig through.
So, I am not arguing that duty to retreat is not "law" in MN, at this point I can be fairly certain that it is... it just would be nice if they would put it in statuatory form. Of course it would be even better if they adopted both Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground and codified that instead!
RoostRider
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- Mar 28, 2008
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Yeah, it's a bit confusing... but she was inside the fence, on the other side of the yard, and didn't realize what was going on... I hollered at her to follow me in the house, but she chose to go to the fence and ask what was going on instead....
Like I said, I made a mistake in not dragging her in with me, but either way I was going back out with my gun to protect my other friends whom I had no idea where they were, nor time to round them up and warn them of the threat.... (they happened to be in the neighbors yard, unannounced to me).... had the perp turned his anger at them, I would have been there to stop him, one way or another...
Seriously, this guy was delirious with anger... spitting and screaming obscenities... he also had two friends who followed him over (luckily for him, they were trying to stop him by the time he got to my fence)... I had no idea if his friends were threats or not, but I wasn't taking the chance as to whether his friends were going to help or hurt the situation....
NavyLT - I can't argue with that. I had thought it was in the statutes as presented by the instructor, but admitt I have not had time to do that search as of yet. However - we are at least now on the same page and I agree with you - if not on the statutes, it should be, and I would sure welcome a castle doctrine law here in MN. I believe it was attempted but not sucessful ?
RoostRider - I think a bunch of the speculation comes from your original post which was a bit short on detail. Thanks for clearing up some of the questions that posters were having to speculate on. The devil is always in the details.
RoostRider - I think a bunch of the speculation comes from your original post which was a bit short on detail. Thanks for clearing up some of the questions that posters were having to speculate on. The devil is always in the details.
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