Carrying a Sig P938 IWB - Cocked, but not Locked?

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JTQ said:
The guy in the linked article above didn't holster his gun in a hurry. His gun was already holstered. His holster was soft, and didn't provide much retention (like your holster), his gun moved in his holster, coming up and then down into the holster again, by his movement in the car. That it was also soft, it allowed the mouth of the holster to bend into the trigger guard as it went back down into the holster. That's how the gun fired. It wasn't a holstering at speed issue, it was a soft holster issue.

A holster like yours, which is soft, provides very little if any retention. Your belt tension is the primary thing keeping the gun in the holster. If your gun moves up out of the holster due to some movement, that soft holster mouth opening is perfectly capable of engaging the trigger.
Click to expand...

My holster... is a different design all together.

Compare the pictures.

There are no horizontal "flaps" save the mouth, which is steel strap reinforced.

All the other edges are vertical, and completely cover both the trigger guard and safety.

As for retention?

It is positive and secure.




GR
 
How do you holster and un holster this gun in that condition? The trigger is designed nothing like a Glock. Do you appendix carry? I wouldn’t be comfortable carrying in that condition. But it’s a somewhat free country.
 
I treat my Sig P938 along with all my Star Firestar pistols just like any 1911. They are carried cocked AND locked no matter what type of holster I use. It takes minimal training to learn to sweep down on the safety with your thumb as you unholster and bring the pistol up to fire.

I use both a good leather or kydex IWB holster when I carry my Sig.

Yes I carry 1911's, my Sig, Firestars, and Glocks. I would rather sweep the non existing safety when drawing a Glock out of the holster. I will never carry a single action that is not cocked and locked.
 
Electricmo said:
How do you holster and un holster this gun in that condition? The trigger is designed nothing like a Glock. Do you appendix carry? I wouldn’t be comfortable carrying in that condition. But it’s a somewhat free country.
Click to expand...

I would imagine, since it has ambidextrous safeties, the intended process (by the OP) would be to engage the safety, holster safely, then disengage the safety using the ambidextrous safety while the gun is holstered.
 
Garandimal said:
If it's in a holster that covers the trigger, and is holstered/drawn/handled properly, why couldn't it be treated like a Glock, and mitigate the negligent safety engagement issue?
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It certainly could be treated like a Glock, but it wouldn't mitigate the negligent safety engagement issue...it would be lowering the bar of acceptable safety

I understand both sides of the issue we're discussing here as I've had long, hours and days, discussions with several friends who have both extensive and varied training and experience to draw on. I'm not talking about folks who read or heard something or folks who "reasoned it out". I'm talking about some folks who have worn and used handguns under stress as well as folks who make a living training others and see hundreds of guns used under stress every year.

In the OP the standard of safety the pistol in question is being compared to is a Glock. While Glock pistols are widely used, their inherent safety isn't beyond question. When Glock were first introduced, they were advertised as being extremely safe due to multiple safety features. The more telling fact is that Glock then found that it needed to form and dispatch a team of trainers to departments who adopted their pistols to teach them to overcome the overwhelming number of negligent discharges occurring within the adopting agency. So, Glocks aren't inherently safer, they are acceptably safe when the user is properly trained.

A DA/SA semiautomatic pistol is inherently safer than a Glock...a SAO pistol carried in Condition Zero is nothing close to being as safe as a DA/SA pistol
 
9mmepiphany said:
It certainly could be treated like a Glock, but it wouldn't mitigate the negligent safety engagement issue...it would be lowering the bar of acceptable safety...
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Semantics.

Could put a NY trigger and one of those trigger safety plugs on the Glock, and a 4-point harness and crash helmet in my truck.

The point is - the P938 has a heavier trigger than the Glock, and both would fire if holstered with a trigger obstruction.

If both are carried in the same properly designed holster, and handled the same... what's the difference?




GR
 
12Bravo20 said:
I treat my Sig P938 along with all my Star Firestar pistols just like any 1911. They are carried cocked AND locked no matter what type of holster I use. It takes minimal training to learn to sweep down on the safety with your thumb as you unholster and bring the pistol up to fire.

I use both a good leather or kydex IWB holster when I carry my Sig.

Yes I carry 1911's, my Sig, Firestars, and Glocks. I would rather sweep the non existing safety when drawing a Glock out of the holster. I will never carry a single action that is not cocked and locked.
Click to expand...

Originally, and for the first Seventy years of its military and civilian use... the 1911 didn't have a passive firing pin safety.

The manual thumb (and grip) safety was all there was.

Entrenched manual of arms.

Just thinkin' outside the box.




GR
 
Electricmo said:
How do you holster and un holster this gun in that condition? The trigger is designed nothing like a Glock. Do you appendix carry? I wouldn’t be comfortable carrying in that condition. But it’s a somewhat free country.
Click to expand...

The P938 has a heavier trigger than the Glock, and both would fire if holstered with a trigger obstruction.

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GR
 
Garandimal said:
Originally, and for the first Seventy years of its military and civilian use... the 1911 didn't have a passive firing pin safety.

The manual thumb (and grip) safety was all there was.

Entrenched manual of arms.

Just thinkin' outside the box.




GR
Click to expand...

And that entrenched manual of arms has gotten me through a few tours in combat zones.
 
JTQ said:
We're rooting for you. You are on the cutting edge of new procedures.

Time will tell how successful you are. You can write a book, open up a shooting school, and bust some paradigms.
Click to expand...

Kinda like the reverse of the DA/SA guns that also include a safety for some reason (though I kinda enjoy that on my HK45c for any administrative handling I need to do while it's loaded).
 
Garandimal said:
Semantics.
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Actually it isn't

What it sounds like you're saying is that they are equally "safe", what I'm saying is that "equally" doesn't equate to "acceptably"

Could put a NY trigger and one of those trigger safety plugs on the Glock, and a 4-point harness and crash helmet in my truck.
Click to expand...
Those would certainly make a Glock safer, but it is a strawman arguement

If both are carried in the same properly designed holster, and handled the same... what's the difference?
Click to expand...
None

I just don't want later readers to go away with the mis-impression that it is a commonly acceptably level of safety
 
Garandimal said:
Originally, and for the first Seventy years of its military and civilian use... the 1911 didn't have a passive firing pin safety.

The manual thumb (and grip) safety was all there was.
Click to expand...
The original 1911 design even lacked the thumb safety as it was designed to be carried with an empty chamber. The thumb safety was added, at the request of the Army to prevent users from shooting their horses when they were forced to holster before they were able to clear the chamber
 
JTQ said:
We're rooting for you. You are on the cutting edge of new procedures.
Click to expand...
This seems to be an accurate general consensus.

However you set your acceptable level of risk is a personal choice. Our concern is that your efforts elicit support for acceptance of this level might lead the less trained/knowledgeable to accept it as established fact
 
I guess part of it does presuppose that the 938 is drop safe, hammer back, safety off. I'm thinking yes?
 
I looked at a 938 and rented one at the range. Really liked it, but wouldn't buy one as an EDC because all my professional training has been with revolvers and Glocks, both with no external safety to be disengaged. Long retired, but in a SHTF situation, you tend to do what you were trained to do.

As an aside, I would not be comfortable with a cocked exposed hammer and no external safety on. Probably just psychological, but it is what it is.

Of course you could just throw that carabiner at someone, looks like a formidable weapon in itself.
 
Why is there a safety on the gun in the first place? Maybe it was designed to be used for ................. oh never mind.
 
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