Carrying in your car (Oregon)

[physics]

So, I am curious as to what rights I give up, when I am transporting firearms in my vehicle. (Living in OR, but travel through WA to get where I'm going) I am of course assuming it is legal to cross the border with my AK (I think it is, isn't it?!?). But does the fact that I have a gun visible in my vehicle give probable cause for a search? Also, in Oregon, do you have to have your firearms visible (in car still) if you don't have a ccw? Nothing makes me more paranoid than leaving a Saiga 12, AK-47 and a XD .45 sitting in my hatchback, with a crapload of ammo...
Thanks for the help, I hope this hasn't already been posted, but I searched and didn't see anything.

-Physics-

OH YEAH, Hi, I'm Jeff, I live in Oregon and I study physics.

 

[wdlsguy]

Do you have an Oregon concealed handgun license? Do you have a Washington license to carry a concealed pistol?

Hopefully someone familiar with Oregon and Washington firearms laws will jump in.

 

[ChestyP]

Under federal law, if your possession of the firearm(s) in question is legal in your state of origin and your state of destination, just put the guns in the trunk of the car, ammo boxed separately, and you're legal.

As for traveling in WA with guns in the car, as long as they're unloaded, they're legal. (Note: full auto and short barrels are illegal in WA by state law, even if otherwise lawfully possessed under federal or OR law). Under no circumstances can you carry a loaded long gun (to include rounds in a magazine inserted in the firearm) in any vehicle in WA. You may only possess a loaded handgun in a vehicle if you have a valid WA CPL or a CPL recognized by WA (LA, MI, MS, NC, OH, OK, UT).

Out of curiosity, where are you going that you have to transit WA from OR? Idaho? Presumably NOT Canada.

IANAL, but I have represented the state gun lobby in Olympia for 14 years.

 

[Conju]

Oregon chiming in. ORS chapter 166 contains the laws having to do with transportation of firearms. In Oregon, there is NO law against open carry. My cousin got pulled over 2 weeks before he got his permit to carry concealed and was open carrying in his van at the time. If there is no visible evidence of a crime then it is my understanding that there exists no probable cause for search. You may have to ask your local LEO what defines probable cause.

As for open carry and transporting in your car, its okay, but if an officer sees it while doing the stop, don't be surprised if you get drawn on.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Here's the laws from Packing.org:

OR:

Car/Gun law summary
Date updated: Aug 23, 2005 @ 9:14 pm
166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:
(a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;
(b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle; or
(c) Possesses a firearm and:
(A) Is under 18 years of age;
Federal Law on the Transportation of Firearms. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 926A

Peaceable journey law summary
Date updated: Aug 23, 2005 @ 9:15 pm
166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:
(a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;
(b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle
Admin note
You must have an Oregon permit to carry a loaded concealed firearm on your person or in your vehicle.

WA:

Car/Gun law summary
Date updated: Aug 22, 2005 @ 7:42 pm
RCW 9.41.050
(2): A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (a) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (b) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (c) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
RCW 77.15.460 :
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if: (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed. [...] (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.
Federal Law on the Transportation of Firearms. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 926A

Peaceable journey law summary
Date updated: Aug 22, 2005 @ 7:44 pm
RCW 9.41.050
(2): A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol

Basically, keep them unloaded and out of sight. I don't know if you CCW but keep in mind OR and WA don't recognize each other's permits.

P.S.- Nice choices in weapons!

 

[oldfart]

"166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:
(a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;
(b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle; or..."

Notice, in the last line I've quoted, the word "and." While you may have to argue your case in court it is perfectly permissible to carry a firearm openly within reach in your vehicle.
Also, paragraph 166.250(3) says "Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section." So you can legally carry a firearm in a belt holster while driving your car. As I said though, the individual LEO may not be as well-read with respect to Oregon Statutes as he should be.
Good luck!

 

[physics]

Cool thanks for this information, I have always wondered. As far as where I am going, I live in Portland, and drive to Astoria, taking I-5 to highway 30, and I-5 goes through WA. Again, thanks for the help!

 

[Gray Peterson]

A few things

Since there was mentions of open carry here, I have to post.

In Oregon, open carry is NOT probable cause for search. Period, end of statement. You live in Portland where your handgun has to be unloaded, which is fine. Remember, it is illegal to conceal on your person, and it is illegal to conceal and be accessible to your person in your car under ORS 166.250. A handgun in a belt holster is not concealed. However, the cities of Beaverton and Portland has their own "loaded firearm carry" bans which they have the power to do under ORS 166.173. Under those city bans, they do have the power to inspect your handgun to make sure it not loaded. They do NOT have the ability to search beyond the determination of whether or not it is loaded, such as searching your car.

www.oregonfirearms.org has more information on carrying laws in Oregon. A few questions:

1) If you're 21 or over, why don't you have your CHL?
2) If you're interested in open carry, please feel free to PM me off list.

-Lonnie

 

[tylor reimer3]

my dad told me that but im 15 so i still cant carry a wepon yea, just my dagger.

 

[physics]

Haven't gotten around to the ccw yet, I should though. I don't think I can carry on a college campus though, which is where I am all week. Good info though, thanks, I always thought the cops could search my car for travelling with guns, it's good to know they don't give probable cause. I have yet to get pulled over, but I would anticipate the police harassing me pretty good about the AK.

 

[busy_squirrel]

RCW 9.41.050 basically says you don't hafta declare a CPL to an LEO unless asked, but you hafta produce it if your asked about it.

I can't find anything requiring declaration of weapons if you don't have a CPL, but it might be out there somewhere.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Haven't gotten around to the ccw yet, I should though. I don't think I can carry on a college campus though, which is where I am all week

There's currently a fight over preemption down there with schools. If you have a concealed handgun license, you are exempt from the law that prohibits carry in schools and universities.

 

[physics]

Again, nice info Lonnie, thanks! With that in mind, I will have some free time next week (spring break!). Looks like it's time to get it.

 

[Conju]

There's currently a fight over preemption down there with schools. If you have a concealed handgun license, you are exempt from the law that prohibits carry in schools and universities

Not really, if you know of the bill that they have put forth this year I would like to read it, but I've been very carefully perusing all the new legislature here this session and have yet to find a bill dealing with firearms on school property. And you CAN carry concealed at any school anywhere here in the state UNLESS:

a)The school is a private school AND
b)The school has no weapon signs posted at EVERY entrance to the premises, citing a complete statute under which they are authorized to do so.

Remember, the concealed firearm is a non issue. Concealed means concealed, which means no one should see it.

I walked to and from OSU daily for 6 months and never once left my firearm at home.

Someone posted that a weapon in your car has to be stored away from you unloaded. it varies from city to city and county to county and its best to read the local laws on that.

 

[Joe Link]

Good to see another Oregonian on the board; welcome to the forum

 

[fatelk]

As to Washington state; it's pretty easy for an Oregonian to get an out-of-state concealed pistol permit.
The in-laws live in Clallum county and I wanted to be legal to carry a gun in the car when we travel. I just went to the county sherrifs office and it was a pretty easy process.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Open Carry Saves the Day!

From http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2151

No reciprocity with anybody. So how do I carry a gun while driving?

(1) State v. Johnson, 96 Or. App. 166 (1989) “Once the officer discovered that defendant carried his knife openly in a sheath at his waist, he no longer had reasonable suspicion, let alone probable cause, to suspect defendant of wrongdoing. The reason for the officer's stop of defendant having dissipated, the subsequent arrest and search were unjustified and therefore illegal.”

(2) State v. Fisher, 100 Or. App. 149 (1990) “We conclude that the plain language of ORS 166.250 does not make it unlawful for a person to carry a firearm openly in a belt holster, whether or not the person is riding in a motor vehicle.”

I stumbled across the above while researching how I, as a nonresident, may carry in Oregon while driving. I think I found my answer.

 

[Gray Peterson]

a)The school is a private school AND
b)The school has no weapon signs posted at EVERY entrance to the premises, citing a complete statute under which they are authorized to do so.

Even so, you cannot be charged with an offense for the firearms possession BY ITSELF. You must be asked to leave, and then refuse to leave, in order to be charged with trespassing. There is no law stating that carrying against a no firearms sign is a criminal act insofar as it applies to private citizens in Oregon.