Cast bullets for .38 target loads

[MrBorland]

I stumbled upon the website for Quality Cast Bullets, and the prices look pretty good, so I was thinking of ordering some 148 grain wadcutters and 158 grain LSWCs to load up some .38spl target rounds. Probably use the tried and true 2.7-2.9 grains of Bullseye. They've only been around since '02, so has anyone ordered anything from them? Any feedback?

Anyhow, I'm a relatively new reloader and hear a lot about leading if the hardness of the bullet doesn't match the application. I sent them an email asking about hardness, and was told they're 6/2 antimony/lead, and corresponds to "#2 Commercial mix". I'm assuming he means it's similar (or the same as) Lyman #2. From what I gather, that'd have a Brinell hardness score of about 15.

I don't have my loading manuals in front of me, but I recall the pressure/Brinell calculations said a max Brinell hardness of 12 for these loads. So, my questions is How hard and fast is this equation? Are these bullets too hard for this application, and is it likely I'll see leading if i used them?

FWIW, I was loading some soft swaged DEWCs over 2.8 grains of bullseye and haven't had a leading issue.


http://www.qualitycastbullets.com/

 

[243winxb]

Tin is needed in cast bullets IMO

While antimony is used to harden the bullet, the mixture of tin is critical, for while antimony mixes with lead in its molten state, it will not remain mixed when it solidifies. If tin were not added, we would have pure antimony crystals surrounded by pure lead. A bullet of this type , while it feels hard , would certainly lead the bore and eliminate all potential for accuracy. In a lead-tin-antimony mixture, the antimony crystals will be present just the same, but they will be imbedded in a lead-tin mixutre. As the bullet cools the tin will form around the antimony-lead keeping your bullets from leading the bore.

 

[Walkalong]

Antimony hardens the mix, tin helps harden it a bit, but it is most useful in helping the mix flow, filling out molds better.

Most commercial cast bullets will shoot well in .38 Spl, but you are right, that brinell hardness is a little over optimum for your low pressure loads. That said, they will most likely work with minimal leading, assuming they are sized right, have a decent lube, and your revolvers throats are a good match to your bore. (.001 to .002 over bore diameter). You can also lube them with Lee Liquid Alox or Rooster Jacket for additional protection against leading.

148 Gr HBWC's are usually swaged and very soft. They will work great for your WC/Bullseye loads. I used to shoot a lot of cast DEWC's in .38, but at more pressure than you are talking about.

For the 158's, they will most likely be cast, and different makers use different mixes. Ask around.

There are a great many bullet companies to choose from. Folks here who are shooting lead should be able to give you some real life experience and suggestions of whose work well for your applications.

The famous Bullseye load used swaged HBWC's

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The prices seem to be very good. Actually those prices look a little low, are the prices current?

If the bullets are made correctly you shouldn't have a problem with leading even though that alloy sounds a touch hard.

 

[zxcvbob]

Worst case isn't all that bad: if both the bullets and their lube are too hard (for .38 Specials anyway), just tumble them in Rooster Jacket or Lee Liquid Alox.

 

[Slamfire]

Load the 148's with 2.7 grains Bullseye, and the 158's with 3.5 grains Bullseye. Neither load is going to push either bullet so fast that you will get leading.

Any bullets using a #2 lyman alloy equivalent are going to produce good results. I have had more leading problems with dead soft swaged bullets.

I had some bullets that may have been made from linotype. I forget the problems I had, but those bullets did not do so well. It is possible to have cast bullets that are too hard.

 

[dagger dog]

I agree with Slamfire1, with the modest velocities of either stated load a good lube is all that is needed to combat any leading , but it should not occur at the velocities involved, if the barrel starts out absolutley clean.

 

[angus6]

The mix isn't 6/2 antimony/lead , I'll bet on that it's 2/6/92 tin/ant /lead which is about the most common used alloy for commercial casting as to prices nothing special , kinda odd the prices stayed up there but the lead price sure took a drop
I liked to buy from John at http://tinyurl.com/dapvzj as he would ship by weight ie:up to 70LB flate rate $10

 

[Steve C]

Missouri bullet company sells 158gr SWC 12 BNH bullets for target velocities in the .38 spl and 18 BNH for the .357 mag. Their 148gr DEWC bullets are 10 BNH. One of the few companies that offer different hardness bullets without special order. Check them out at the link below:

http://www.missouribullet.com

 

[MrBorland]

148 Gr HBWC's are usually swaged and very soft. They will work great for your WC/Bullseye loads. I used to shoot a lot of cast DEWC's in .38, but at more pressure than you are talking about.

Thanks all for your input.

Seems the relatively soft swaged HBWCs are relatively tough to find, a barometer of how the popularity of revolver target shooting has waned, I guess.

I've been using Speer bulk-packed, and last time I checked, Midway stopped carrying them. I think Hornady makes them as well. I've been looking around, but so far, I've only found the Speer & Hornady.

I've read several places that'd it very difficult to for a handloader to match, let alone, surpass, the quality of factory target WCs. Why is that? Seems a handloader can generally make great loads that surpass factory loads for accuracy, so why would it be different with WCs?

I've checked Missouri Bullet before, and yes, they've got some good stuff. Their 158 grain SWCs would work nicely, I think.

 

[Walkalong]

Hornady - Seem pricey

Here is another option - Berrys 148 Gr HBWC

 

[MrBorland]

Walkalong - Thanks for the reminder. I've been using their plated RN, and completely forgot they have a HBWC, too. I shoot at an indoor range, too, so plated HBWCs may be even better.

 

[bullseye308]

I've read several places that'd it very difficult to for a handloader to match, let alone, surpass, the quality of factory target WCs. Why is that? Seems a handloader can generally make great loads that surpass factory loads for accuracy, so why would it be different with WCs?

Factory SWC's are swaged and not cast. I cannot explain it myself, but it makes a difference.

 

[243winxb]

Factory SWC's are swaged and not cast. I cannot explain it myself, but it makes a difference.

Lead bullets are made two ways. Swaged and Cast. The swaged are more accurate than cast, no air pockets in a swaged bullet. Swaged are used for target shooting at slow speeds as they are on the soft side because how they are made. Cast bullet of the proper alloy/lube can be pushed to 1400fps. After 1400 fps to around 2200fps a gas check on the back of the bullet is needed to prevent leading.

 

[GP100man]

when shootin (hardcast boolits) if they lead a little try another .2-.5 gr powder, the lead will lesson because the pressure pushing on the base of the boolit makes it seal titer.
so low pressure -soft boolits , hi pressure- hard boolits .
we won`t get into twists!!!!

GP100man