CC @Pawn/Gun Shops

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almherdfan

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Wild, Wonderful, WV
A new pawn/gun shop opened in my hometown and naturally, I paid a visit. I was a little dissapointed to see a "no loaded guns" sign posted on the door. I reluctantly put my weapon in the glove box, locked the vehicle and went inside.

I was greeted warmly enough and was asked if I could be helped. I said I was just browsing, but did want to know about if the loaded weapon policy pertained to CC or just to folks that wanted to pawn/trade their guns. The guy at the counter said he didn't know. The lady at the Jewelry counter said it applied to CC. I asked why and she said, "Honey, it just is." I laughed in a friendly (not snarky) manner and said, "O.K., but that's not much of an answer." She smiled and said, "it's just like everywhere else, you can't carry a gun in Wal-Mart." I laughed, as I'd just been at Wal-Mart. I then asked to speak to the owner and she took me to his office.

He explained that he didn't want to be robbed. I replied that if it were my intention to rob him, I won't much care what his sign said. He then said he didn't want drunks with loaded guns in his shop and that all I had to do was remove the magazine from the weapon. I told him I thought a gun shop should promote CC, not discourage it and that it was a disspointing policy. He replied that he wasn't that be of deal and he only loosely enforced it. I said that I would obey his rules in his shop, even if I disliked them.

I then looked around a little more, noticing that his selection was limited and his pricing odd (a used KT P32-no frills listed for just under $400, but a NIB KT P3AT was $289). He did have a bushnell 2-7 pistol scope for $120 that I'll keep an eye on.

There are about 15 gun/pawn shops around here and this is the first to ban loaded weapons. Is this more common and is it justified by logic that is escaping me at the moment?
 
We have one here that has a sign saying "No handling of loaded guns in the shop."

What is funny about that though, is that the guy behind the counter OCs. Personally, I wouldn't shop at a gun store that wants people to not have guns on them.
To temper this argument though, remember ... This is also a pawn shop.
 
Walmart's official company policy is they allow the carrying of firearms in compliance with state and local law. Concealed or open is no problem if you are not breaking the law in carrying in that manner.
 
The owner of any business can be as smart or foolish as he cares to be. CC is not visible, that's why they call it that. I surely understand the "NO LOADED GUNS" sign as a reminder to minimize the chance of negligent/accidental discharge & would have taken it that way. As for my own CC, I take a personal "don't ask/don't tell" policy. In my state, the only penalty I'm am subjecting myself to IF I DECIDE to ignore a "No Weapons" posting is to be asked to leave the property. With no criminal repercussions in ignoring the sign, I'd rather CC & stay armed.
 
He replied that he wasn't that be of deal and he only loosely enforced it.

Weird. If it's not that big of a deal, why have the policy? Sounds like they didn't think this through.

My LGS allows carry. On the rare occasion where I have needed to take out my carry gun (i.e., I found a new holster to try, something like that), I ask the owner first. I don't do anything until he says "OK."
 
This has been covered here time and time again. He is the owner of private property. He is allowed to set the ground rules for you to be on his premises. He can refuse service to anyone at anytime as long as he is not violating the civil rights of a protected class. GUN OWNERS ARE NOT A PROTECTED CLASS. He does not have to enforce the sign but if he chooses to in most states if you refuse to leave you are subject to a tresspassing charge. In some states carrying on posted personal property is a crime in and of itself.

If you don't like his policy shop somewhere else but his right to control his own private property and what happens on that property trumps your right to have a gun because you are voluntarily entering his store/private property.

As usual I am now putting on my THR flame retardant suit. :evil:
 
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almherdfan said:
There are about 15 gun/pawn shops around here and this is the first to ban loaded weapons. Is this more common and is it justified by logic that is escaping me at the moment?

Respectfully, I am trying to figure out the logic of this:

almherdfan said:
He did have a bushnell 2-7 pistol scope for $120 that I'll keep an eye on.

Why would you honor him with your business?
 
rellascout--I understand all of that. I was just wondering if there was a "good" reason to have such a policy.

navyLCDR--I probobly won't, but wanted input from folks living elsewhere.
 
My favorite LGS allow people to carry open or concealed. The employees also admit to be packing. At times, I ask if I could unholster my weapon to try on new holster. Since the emmployees know me as a regular customer, they don't stiffen up when I do so. They at times look the other way and go about their business.
 
Why bring it up? Concealed means concealed, as they say. If you aren't planning to sell, trade or repair your CCW, try out a holster for fit, or anything else that requires you to remove it, leave it where it is and don't say anything. That said, these policies need to be made more clear.
 
The biggest shop in my area, Shoot Straight, has a large "No Loaded Guns" sign on the door. I never understood it either.
 
My LGS only has a "No Bow Cases" only because they've had merchandise walk off in them. Most of the employees are packing, anyway. They just don't want you to mess with your carry piece while in the store.
 
OP, I think you you made a great argument with the owner. Who knows his policy may change because of it.
 
rellascout--I understand all of that. I was just wondering if there was a "good" reason to have such a policy.

Liability... If you shoot someone else or yourself in his store he is not party to the civil suit which will follow because you knowly and willingly ignored his policy.

Also if someone where to come in an attempt to rob him and he is armed and is prepared to fight back having only the "bad guy" with a gun would help him shoot the right person vs the 3 CHP holders who also drew. :evil:
 
In my state, the only penalty I'm am subjecting myself to IF I DECIDE to ignore a "No Weapons" posting is to be asked to leave the property. With no criminal repercussions in ignoring the sign, I'd rather CC & stay armed.

^This for me, as I am also in KY.

Last year I visited the famed Bud's Gun Shop searching for a particular gun and was surprised to see a "No Concealed Carry" sign (or something to that effect). I know I could have ignored it and went in anyway, but I respectfully disarmed, locked it in my glove box and went in. I don't have a problem with business owner's making their own rules but I would think those in the gun business would support the right to carry. As someone else stated, those who would do wrong will not adhere to the posted signs anyway.
 
No handling of loaded weapons is pretty standard. Most of the shops I've been to don't care (and encourage) about you CC'ing, but you don't pull it out while in the shop. One with an indoor range is fine you you taking your carry piece into the range and shooting - just make sure its concealed again when you step out of the range. All the shop employees that I'm aware of open carry - the robbery risk is too great not to.
 
I can't imagine patronizing a gun shop that doesn't permit lawful CC. And the guy who thinks that forbidding CC is gonna keep him from getting robbed is living in a dream world where criminals obey the law.

One LGS I frequent has a sign saying "All guns must be unloaded and actions open", but it also says "Lawful concealed carry is permitted and encouraged" (or words to that effect).

Similarly, Cabela's has a policy that all guns brought in must be unloaded and presented for inspection at the front desk. I asked if that applied to licensed CC and was told, "Of course not!"

But I would not presume to unholster my loaded carry piece in a store to show it or to try a holster. I would not even display my holstered weapon without specific permission and making it very clear what I was doing. Technically, exposing your "concealed" firearm, even in a gun shop, could violate the provision on your license/permit against "brandishing".

If I knew I was shopping for a holster, I might go to the trouble of clearing my gun in the privacy of my vehicle and taking it in in a case, with the action open.

Once (in a gun shop where I am known) I wanted to try on a new vest, which necessitated removing the vest I was wearing to conceal my handgun. I said to the clerk, "I'd like to try this on, but that will expose something that's supposed to be concealed". He directed me to try it on in a back corner; some of the other customers might have surmised that I was carrying, but nobody saw it.
 
Similarly, Cabela's has a policy that all guns brought in must be unloaded and presented for inspection at the front desk. I asked if that applied to licensed CC and was told, "Of course not!"
Around here they (and the other big box sporting goods places) have a notice on every entry door that says something to the effect of all guns coming in for service or sale/trade needing to be unloaded and taken to the service desk, followed by a bold notice that says, "This does not apply to our Concealed Carry customers."

I rather like that.

But I would not presume to unholster my loaded carry piece in a store to show it or to try a holster. I would not even display my holstered weapon without specific permission and making it very clear what I was doing.
Exactly. Get the attention of a clerk, explain what you want to do, and ask them how to proceed. Usually they'll have a safe(er) area to clear your weapon.

Technically, exposing your "concealed" firearm, even in a gun shop, could violate the provision on your license/permit against "brandishing".
Well, that's really only a likely problem in a very few states. It may get you asked to leave in certain stores, but it is rarely illegal.

If I knew I was shopping for a holster, I might go to the trouble of clearing my gun in the privacy of my vehicle and taking it in in a case, with the action open.
That's a popular idea. If I was a gun shop owner, I'd rather have my cusomers come to me to clear their carry guns at my safe point than do it on their own in my parking lot, pointing which ever way strikes their fancy, but that's the way it often works.

Once (in a gun shop where I am known) I wanted to try on a new vest, which necessitated removing the vest I was wearing to conceal my handgun. I said to the clerk, "I'd like to try this on, but that will expose something that's supposed to be concealed". He directed me to try it on in a back corner; some of the other customers might have surmised that I was carrying, but nobody saw it.
I would imagine that there'd be little reason to hide the fact that you were carrying or use a safe area if you weren't actually drawing the gun, but you should follow whatever directions the clerk gives you -- so long as it is safe to do so.
 
At a local sporting goods store there is a sign that says, "All unholster weapons must be brought to the counter...etc."

I like that. Open or concealed carry in a holster is quite allowed.
 
"All firearms that will be turned in for consignment or repair need to be unloaded and bolt open."

That is a reasonable sign: if I see a "no loaded guns" sign, I would tell the owner, that is his privilage, but I will not patronize his business untill it changes.

He doesn't want to be robbed? Does he really think a sign is going to even slow down a robber? I just OC'd into our local (40 miles) WalMart yesterday. They don't care.
 
I'd rather have a big sign printed-up that said "ANY LOADED GUN DISPLAYED BEYOND THIS DOOR WILL GET YOU SHOT! *Sorry, No Exceptions!"

That's cute and all, but obviously grossly untrue (no, you will NOT shoot the first idiot who flashes his carry gun -- or even draws it ... and if you do, you deserve what you'll get!) and it also is going to make any legitimate shootings even more interesting when you get to court.

We'd do ourselves a lot of favors if we'd drop the cutsie-pie machismo bumper-stickers and hooo-rah signage.
 
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