CCI #34 military primers for loading 308?

[uneasy_rider]

Should I use the CCI#34 military primers for loading 308 for a M1A and FAL? Or is it OK to use regular Large Rifle Primers?

If I am also going to shoot some of this through a commercial bolt action rifle, are the #34 military primers still ok?

 

[lamazza]

is it OK to use regular Large Rifle Primers?

Yes

 

[uneasy_rider]

What is the benefit of using the #34 Military primers?

 

[Peter M. Eick]

The are less sensitive and thicker to prevent slam fires in military rifles with floating firing pins.

While you CAN use conventional large rifle primers, using c-34's like buying insurance. You probably don't need it but if you do, you are sure glad you had it. The problem is that with C-34's you don't know you need it until after you have slammed fired and probably destroyed your gun.

Didn't your M1A come with an article about slam fires when you bought it?

 

[HM2PAC]

CCI #34 primers are harder than their usual offering of Lg Rifle Primers. That being said, CCI Lg Rifle primers are really hard to begin with.

The reason people use the #34 is because service rifles, (M-1, M-14, AR-15, HK-91,.....etc.) have floating firing pins. A harder primer may prevent a phenomenon called "slam fire". If the primer ignites while the rifle is out of battery, as in a slam fire, the results can be catastrophic.

Catastrophic=Ka-Boom=Injury/Death

This all being said, most people will still use CCI Lg Rifle Primers rather than the #34's. I looked around for the #34, but no one in this area stocks them. Everyone out here is using the regular CCI, which I have plenty of.

So far they work fine in my M-1 and PTR-91.

 

[Sunray]

"...the benefit of using the #34..." Buying them keeps the employees of CCI working. They're a marketing thing. Regular large rifle primers worked just fine long before the CCI primers came along. #34's are magnum primers. You don't need magnum primers for the powders commonly used for the .308/7.62.
Slamfires are caused by improperly seated primers, not the rifle.
"...Didn't your M1A come with..." The M1A manual says not to use reloads at all. It's a CYA thing for SA Inc. If some shooter doesn't load properly and damages his rifle, he can't sue SA Inc, because they told him not to use reloads.

 

[threefeathers]

I don't use them and I load thousands of 5.56 and 7.62.

 

[GunTech]

I tried #34. The are harder, and also very hot - the equivalent of magnum primers. I found that they really hurt accuracy in my M1A, and increased SD of velocity shot to shot. I've been using CCI CR-2s with great success. Just make sure that your primers are seated below the case head!

 

[Mark whiz]

GunTech hit the nail on the head. The key to preventing slam fires is to make sure your primers are seated ever so slightly below the level of the case head. If you do this on every round, it doesn't make a bit of difference what primer you use.
I've tried the #34s on my M1A too, and was not inspired by their accuracy either.

 

[Slamfire]

The key to preventing slam fires is to make sure your primers are seated ever so slightly below the level of the case head. If you do this on every round, it doesn't make a bit of difference what primer you use.

Primer sensitivity is the primary cause of slamfires, along with a darn free floating firing pin.

It is very simple. Just chamber a round. See the dent on the primer caused by the firing pin? If the firing pin has enough energy, and the primer is very sensitive, the primer will ignite.

Seating the primers below the case head is part of a series of steps to reduce the risk of a slamfire.

First full length resize, best practice is to use a small base die, and size the case to cartridge headspace gage minimum.

Seat your primers by hand an inspect to see that all primers are below the case head.

Use the least sensitive primers around, which are the CCI mil spec line. Under no conditions use a Federal primer.

I've tried the #34s on my M1A too, and was not inspired by their accuracy either

CCI #34 primers shoot just fine.

This is a 100-8X target shot in competition with my M1a, during the 200 yard sitting rapid fire stage. It is seldom I get to see my target in the pits, they are usually pasted over by the time I get down there, and it is seldom that I shoot 8 X cleans with a M1a. This group was shot with Nosler 168's, CCI #34 primers and surplus 4895.




This is a 100 yard target I shot slow fire prone with a 30-06 Garand, I was practicing. This was also shot with CCI #34 primers and IMR 4895.




It is my considered opinion based on "on target performance" that CCI #34 primers are fine primers.

 

[Never No More]

ALl I use are #34 CCI for my M1 Garand, never had a problem yet. Liked them so much bought a 5000 brick

 

[Linear Thinker]

You don't need the #34s for M1 and FAL, the slam-fire is not an issue with those designs. I do use the #34s with my MAS 56, they cured the occasional full-auto bursts that attracted much unwanted attention at the range.
LT

 

[Slamfire]

I do use the #34s with my MAS 56, they cured the occasional full-auto bursts that attracted much unwanted attention at the range.

I am curious to hear more. I am unfamiliar with the MAS 56. I assume it has a free floating firing pin, is that correct?. No spring around the firing pin to slow it down?

And what type of primers were you using? And how often did you get multiple slamfires?

Did you always check to see that your primers were below the case head? This is relevant as there is this group who believe that slamfires can only happen with high primers.

 

[USSR]

Did you always check to see that your primers were below the case head? This is relevant as there is this group who believe that slamfires can only happen with high primers.

SlamFire1,

This is going to prove nothing. Numerous individuals have told you on another website that they have put thousands of rounds downrange using careful handloading practices and non-CCI #34 primers, yet you persist. Please use what primers you want and quit preaching your gloom and doom.

Don

 

[Slamfire]

This is going to prove nothing. Numerous individuals have told you on another website that they have put thousands of rounds downrange using careful handloading practices and non-CCI #34 primers, yet you persist.

Don: I want to know this guy's experience. If he has had slamfires in a weapon that I am unfamiliar with, I would like to know more about these events.

If the data collected conflicts with dogma held by certain people, well, so be it.

 

[ftierson]

The MAS Mle. 49/56 has a firing pin that weighs three pounds and is as thick as a tree trunk...

Well, perhaps I've exaggerated slightly...

The MAS 49/56 is known to slamfire with many primers...

Use the CCI #34 to minimize the chance of it happening with this rifle. I know that I do...

Forrest

 

[rdhood]

Fascinating... I was just about to ask about CCI #34 primers and Federal Cases. A member over at Cast Boolits is selling 7.62x39 Federal brass, and I bought 300. I know that the economics are not quite right for reloading this caliber yet, but I am gathering supplies.

I assume that Federal brass takes large rifle primers? and can also use #34 primers? These will be shot from an AK-47 or an SKS.

Also, I noticed that Berry's sells plated bullets for 7.62, but they have a 17xx fps maximum velocity. This is *very* low charge for most loads. Is it typical for lead or plated to have such low fps limitations? I'm not going to do it, but what happens to a plated bullet when you exceed those limitations? What are the ramifications, ballistically, to the 7.62 x39 when when you slow a bullet (typically shot at around 2100-2200fps) to 1750 fps?

I've been thinking about using Berry's with Hodgdon H4895 in a "youth" load to meet the 1750 fps limitation. If I can find some FMJ as cheap as the plated, I'll go full power with AA1680.

 

[Master Blaster]

http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/143615

$99 per five thousand at Graffs

 

[res45]

I use the CCI #34 primer in my YUGO M59/66 SKS mainly due to the floating firing pin issue. I bought a couple K cheaper than I could get the regular CCI LR primers for there actually $5 per k cheaper,as far a accuracy goes I haven't had any problems with that.

 

[Master Blaster]

How do folks use these as a substitute for regular primers?
CCI says to use magnum primer data, but most semi auto rifle load manuals dont have seperate data for magnum primers.

So is there a rule of thumb 2 grains less? Or do you work the load up from starting weight or some percentage under??

Thanks

 

[res45]

Most reloading manuals I have seen specify to use a Magnum primer with the load data either by saying it outright in the text along with placing an * beside the Starting load weight like H110 *21.6. The load date I use was given to me buy the CCI Tech. But regardless of that fact I always start at the bottom and work up till I see signs of pressure mainly in the primer. I load 3 rounds at a time to test then inspect the cases and primer with a loop for signs or case cracks or splits and flattened primers and primer material protruding from around the firing pin indention.

 

[stubbicatt]

I have a 5.56 AK, and while it uses small primers, it will slamfire on the standard Small Rifle Primer by CCI, but it doesn't with the military primers. So for me in my blasting ammo reloads, I use the military primers for the 223.

The PTR 91 has a firing pin spring, and I have never had an issue using standard CCI large rifle primers in my PTR91. No indications whatsoever of the firing pin touching the primer before I pull the trigger.

 

[trueblue1776]

Stubbiecat, how do you find load data? I assume you're laking about the CCI #41 small rifle primers.

 

[res45]

You can Call CCI technical service at 1-866-286-7436 and get any load data you need concerning the use of there components.

 

[Slamfire]

Load data provides "guidelines". I develop my own loads, based on my experience as a Highpower shooter. I am a paper puncher, and I shoot the stuff in 100F weather. Only for my 600 yard loads am I interested in pushing the velocities. And even then, I don't want pierced or blown primers.

I use a chronograph and I develop loads watching the velocity on the chronograph, and I look at the primers. Sometimes they correlate, sometimes they don't. But when the primers leak or blow, I always know that I have exceeded a max load.

My limits in a .223, based on my experience, is not to push a 69 match bullet much faster than 2800 fps. A Hornady 75 BTHP about 2700 fps. I have had pressure problems when I go much faster. And that is with all the powders I have tried. I have similar self imposed limits on my 308.

I have found, that my load data in .223, 308 and 30-06, with the CCI #34's and CCI #41's is interchangeable with WLR and WSR. The velocities are close and don't have pressure problems.

I cannot say that for Federal primers. I changed a case type and to CCI#34's in a 308 load, and started having pressure problems. It was a maximum load and you cannot change anything in a maximum load without have some unexpected issues.

If you are not shooting maximum loads, don't worry about the differences in primers. Just load and shoot. And look at the first couple that come out, to see if they are blown.