CCI Primer Issue

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RainDodger

RainDodger

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I have an interesting situation going on with primers. I thought I’d get an opinion from other experienced hand loaders.

Background: I’ve been loading for decades. Never had any serious component problems in all that time. I just loaded 75 rounds of 9mm to range test with a different powder I’ve not used before. Out of those 75 rounds, there were 3 failures to fire.

1. Primers are CCI Small Pistol.
2. All 3 cartridges failed to fire in a 100% reliable H&K USP (multiple strikes) and a 100% reliable SIG 239 (multiple strikes). 72 rounds fired perfectly.
3. None of the 3 cartridges have light strikes.
4. Primers appear seated perfectly against bottom of primer pocket.
5. Brass: 2 Winchester cases, 1 Federal case.

I just pulled the bullets, then tried to re-seat the primers, in case they were not set deep enough. They didn’t move and the primers still failed to fire when I ran the primed cases through a pistol with multiple strikes for each one.

This lead me to believe the primer pockets were perhaps too deep. Nope. They’re fine. Just to check, I seated 3 NEW primers in those 3 cases and they fired perfectly in the same pistol. The potentially faulty primers that I removed look perfect.

I re-seated the potentially faulty primers back in the cases and tried to fire them again – no luck. They will not detonate.

My conclusion is, I have 3 dead primers out of the 75 loads I put together. This pisses me off greatly, as I primed 1,000 cases with that brick of primers, getting ready to load 1,000 rounds after testing the load.

I’ve called CCI/Speer and they took my number to call me back. The biggest bummer is… I primed the cases over the holidays and ALL of the boxes with the lot number on them went to the dump with the garbage. AUGH! Not to mention all the primed cases are mixed with roughly 5,000 others in ammo cans.

Is this a sad story, or what?! I know CCI won't be able to help with no lot numbers, but I thought I'd ask them if they've had any recent issues. I'll let you guys know what I hear from them.
 
Have you considered that you seated them to deaply? If you crushed the pellet in the primer by seating them with to much force they won't fire in any gun.

They should only be .003-.005" below flush to be completely reliable. Some cases allow you to go much deeper but the cases with the shallower primer pockets are the ones that will cause you problems.

From what you post describes, I would have to think you broke the pellets in the primers from to much force.
 
I'm not sure if CCI is going to ask you to mail the dud primers to them or not (hazmat fee), but did you test one with a hammer to see if it goes bang?
 
That's a thought tiger... I will un-prime those 3 cases now, and re-prime them with a lighter touch. I don't think this is the case, but I'll certainly check it out. I use an old bench mounted tool that allows a very light touch and this has not happened before. It's definitely a possibility based on what I've found.

I'll try it and report back... thanks for the idea.
 
I find this to be very interesting... I've loaded more than 20K rounds of 9mm using CCI primers with zero issues.

My only guess it that its a bad batch of primers or it's what Tightgroup tiger mentioned?
 
My conclusion is, I have 3 dead primers out of the 75 loads I put together. This pisses me off greatly, as I primed 1,000 cases with that brick of primers, getting ready to load 1,000 rounds after testing the load.

I’ve called CCI/Speer and they took my number to call me back. The biggest bummer is… I primed the cases over the holidays and ALL of the boxes with the lot number on them went to the dump with the garbage. AUGH! Not to mention all the primed cases are mixed with roughly 5,000 others in ammo cans.
Click to expand...

Doesn't happen often, but that's when careful record keeping and labeling really
pays off. OYE
 
I had some CCIs fail several years ago. They were sitting on a shelf in my basement for a year or more. I have a dry basement, but VT has moisture and temp swings. I heaved the rest, and now store my primers in my gun safe, top shelf. Dehumidier rod on the floor. No issues since.

Sorry about the 5000 rounds of mixed brass. That sucks!
 
I've probably loaded well over 20K CCI primered rounds since I've used CCI primers in the 70s or 80s too.

So... I just got off the phone with a tech guy from CCI - they called me back. Very nice and knowledgeable guy. Here's what he thinks....

He explained that CCI primer anvils have 3 legs, unlike some of the other primers which only have 2. According to him, the CCI primers need a bit more pressure to get that anvil to enter the priming mixture. He said that all 3 legs of that anvil must be pressed against the bottom of the primer pocket. He doesn't think the primers are seated fully, and he said that the first hammer strike probably broke the priming mix apart, which would prevent a re-strike from firing the primer.

The tech guys suggested running the cases back through the priming tool and putting a little more pressure on them. I asked about seating them too hard against the primer pocket - he very clearly told me that you can't really seat them too hard... he clearly said that. Apparently if the primer cup contacts the primer pocket bottom, it doesn't hurt anything and the anvil is fully pressed into the priming mixture.

So... I am going to attempt to seat the primers more fully - I sure hope that's what the problem is. Sounds logical - but it's also weird that this just happened to me, with 3 rounds in 75 failing, when I've used CCI primers with no problems for decades.

There we go. That's all I know right now. I'll let you guys know what I figure out.
 
Is it possible that your priming tool is somehow getting worn, applying pressure unevenly?

Do you have a hand primer? You could try that.

But, if the pellets broke somehow like the tech surmised, then there's nothing for it.
 
That might be another good tip, moxie. My priming tool is ancient and isn't as tight as it should be. I will prime maybe 100 primers on one of my presses that I know are straight and tight.. boy, that will suck! Talk about slow! :) Interesting thought though, for sure. More later... I hope to get out to shoot a bunch more this week sometime.
 
I've heard that seating primers too deep can crush the pellets / compound, in fact I read that in my old Speer#10, in which they warn of not over seating.

I too have been using CCI's for decades, 10's of thousands of loads with never a single failure. And in all honesty, there have been times when priming on my RCBS priming die I thought I might have seated them a bit too hard the result of shallow pockets, but no problems thus far.

I hope you get this figured out with some certainty. I feel for ya!

GS
 
When you have the primers out examine them closely. Check for primer compound. Remove the anvil and see if there was any in the center. I have had several primers without the compound and a few with none in the center. None of these were CCI.
 
I have never had a problem with CCI primers in my sort time of hand loading. Please let us know if you find out what happened.
 
I think your tech was probably right. I had the same problem with some Wolf large pistol primers when I couldn't get anything else. Seat them like you mean it and no problems. They worked so well once I learned that, I wouldn't hesitate to use Wolf/Tula in anything. CCI is still my favorite.
 
gamestalker said:
Is it even safe to disassemble a primer? That's not something I would want to attempt.
Click to expand...
I disassembled some primers for this thread but I would strongly suggest eye/full face protection - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=630512&page=2
attachment.php
 
I've had dud Tula SPP, but never once with CCI....large PP either, for that matter.

Russellc
 
Oh ya, I remember that thread BDS, very interesting and informative, might I add brave.

Still, not something I would ever consider doing, I'd probably die of a heart attack if one detonated.

GS
 
I have also loaded uncountable CCI primers and never had one fail.

I even seated a handful of CCI-400 primers too deep and deformed them last year. Every one went bang in a bolt action .223 rifle and actually gave me the best groups to date! lol
 
Tonight I'm going to run 100 cases back through a single stage press and give each primer a good, additional push to ensure full seating. I'll load them up and shoot them in the next couple days. More to come...

(bds - your photo is very interesting! The CCI guy led me to believe that the "3-legged-anvil" was much more common with CCI primers and that makes them a little harder to seat. From your pic... I don't see any 2-legged primers! I took a look at some Remingtons and they've got 3 legs also. Maybe other sizes have 2 legs or something, I don't know.)
 
Primers are filled w/compound by hand, by trained individuals. They process is one where the wet compound is spread over a plate, pressed into the recesses and the excess squeezed off. Every so often the stuff doesn't go where its supposed to. Equals a dead primer. Over the years Ive had FFT with every known brand, not many but a rare few; excepting Wolf/Tula. I have a coule of bricks of Wolf LRM that one box has had numerous FFT ,anda few hang fires(anybody remember these) . The use in a Remi 700 lessened the issue and Browning and Savage(smaller firing pins) worsened it.Apparently just the one box out of 2K primers. Also 22rf, occasional FFT in current production. Manmade products, very good but never perfect.
 
You can't really seat a primer "too deep."

Primers are supposed to be bottomed out in the cup. Beyond that is not seating them too deep, it's simply crushing them.
 
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