CCW holders are the modern Jedi

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OOO! OOO!! If the CCW holders are the Jedi, and the Militia are the Rebel Alliance, does that mean I can be Annikan/Darth? I've always like the idea of running about in set of imposing black body armor and crushing my enemies trachea with just a thought. :evil:
 
The Jedi are NOT libertarians!

A libertarian wouldn't be using force and subtle mind tricks to hold up a crumbling republic-in-name-only. Libertarians would let the Seperatists go, or join them (or instigate it!).

Jedi or Sith? Both want to maintain and enforce order in the galaxy. Statist is statist no matter the color of the lightsaber. :mad:
 
You just know that the emperor's first act would have been to ban the possession of all lightsabers. I can see it now...

"These weapons of war have no legitamite purpose. Only Jedi, separatists and other gang members would ever want to own one. If you want to use a lightsaber/blaster, you should join the military (empire)."

Now that's a political message I would have loved to see... what a missed opportunity :(
 
The Jedi distain guns as being an unskilled weapon.

I figure the closest socio-political group I'd picture the Jedi as being, is a Meritocracy.
 
Join me and together we'll rule the universe!

I don't really care if I get to be a jedi and I'm WAAAYYYYY too short to be a Strom trooper...
Just as long as I get to swing with Natalie Portman on the Lovely Island nation of Naboo for my next vacation. :what:

<Oh, no, sorry honey, I wasn't typing anyhting about Natalie Portman> he says while minimizing the screen

Gotta go... :evil:
 
Delusions of grandeur. I think of CCW as a self protection implement, such as using a seat belt, having a fire extinguisher, and having a safe mindset. You don't have to have any special skills to carry a weapon. Sure you have to practice and train, but it really isn't that hard to get the basics down. I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon, but seriously, most people I know that carry are competent at best - certainly not well trained or in possession of special skills. This actually goes for some LEO types that I know too. I would say most CCW's that I know are overweight, out of shape, and just competent enough with their guns to be safe, and hit the target with a small degree of consistency. If we all take a long hard look at ourself ( I am included) most of us do not stack up against the best trained professionals or the elite when it comes to skill with our weapons.

The Jedi on the other hand. They are in another league. They are the elite. They are the total package - body, mind, spirit. Carrying a light saber don't make you a Jedi, boy.

JM
 
Nerds. All of you. Armed or not.
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...and your point? :)

If you're talking about the Jedi as described in the original trilogy, perhaps. Obi-Wan painted them up as a cross between Old West Town Marshalls and Samurai. Of course, the prequels just reinforced the fact that Obi-Wan lied through his teeth to Luke about pretty much everything.

The Jedi of the prequels are more like the medieval Catholic church inquisitors.

Just an aside, there's a great satirical blog here written from Darth Vader's point of view. It does a good job of painting the Rebel Alliance as a bunch of terrorists, which is true, from a certain point of view.
 
Well, it would seem to me that the first thing that Sen. Palpatine did was to secure his position as leader of the senate, and the second thing he did was to get rid of the group he thought was most likely able to get rid of him, the Jedi Order. As Stalin said, "No man, no problem"--no need to create lightsaber contol legislation if there isn't anyone around to wield one.

As for the Jedi being the unambiguous "good guys", wasn't there a scene in the second movie where Our Heros are chasing a bad guy down and make somewhat of a mess. They avoid trouble with the surrounding crowd by announcing something to the effect of, "Jedi business. Nothing to see here, move along." Sounds like they have substancial political power, enough to let them act as cops or equivalent agency of the galactic government with some level of legal authority (and ocassionally the same level of restraint as the BATFE.) One way to conceptualize their behavior might be as an equivalent of 1920's-30's FBI agents--except that these guys are a bit more heavily armed and organized for dealing with internal dissent than were Hoover's G-Men. Somwhat like today's police agencies, they are not charged with protecting individual rights/property/person, but only that of the "greater good".

Certainly, they seem to have a function, in the popular mind if not in law, of acting as not only a sometimes agency of the central government, but as a control on it's behavior. This is especially noticeable in the third movie, when the Jedi Council decides that it is time they removed now Emperor Palpatine form power. Again, it is unclear if this is a legal duty of the Jedi Order, or if they were acting as kingmakers as the Praetorian Guard did in the Late Republican/Early Imperial periods of the Roman Empire.

The Jedi Order, as it existed in the last years of the Republic, was a monastic order, practicing an obscure philosophy, open only to a select few who had an unusual concentration of "metachloreans" in their bodies, posessed fairly substancial amounts of legal power, and yet acted largely outside the supervision of the elected government, operating largely on their own recognizance. This would hardly seem to be an institution of a democratic government, rather like the Knights of Columbus being able to run around in modern America, dealing justice at sword point without being held responsible to due process or liable for their actions in an open court of law.

Personally, I'd sooner you did not compare me to a Jedi. But on the gripping hand, I think guys like RA Heinlien, David Brin, Alfred Bester, Philip Jose Farmer, etc. have all demonstrated they can write George Lucas into a tiny hole in the ground so far as science fiction goes; EE Doc Smith and Gene Roddenberry did better space opera; guys like Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett do better fantasy; Akira Kurosawa and the Warchowski Brothers do better martial arts films and visual story telling; and Joss Whedon and J Michael Strazinsky (sp) can spin a better tale across a long story arc or in a multi-genre enviroment; so what the heck do I know.



(Besides, while lightsabers are way spiffy keen, it's got to be really exceptionally embarassing if you drop one--on you foot, and then the floor beneath--while it's lit.)
 
Wouldn't modern Jedi be Libertarians?
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Hmm. The Jedi are dedicated to doing good, helping their fellow man, stuff like that. They are, of course, as individual and flawed as the rest of us, and make mistakes. They seem to have an unusual amount of political power, too, but not every king has been a tyrant. We can hardly micro-analyze the political complexities of a (fictional) multi-racial, multi-species, trans-galactic civilization that is (was) over 25,000 years old.

Libertarians, or at least, the modern followers of Rand, are moral relativists. The only immoral act to them is interfering in their lives. Selfless, a Jedi must be, (to paraphrase Yoda), and selfless Randians are not. Quite the opposite, in fact, if the weblogs are to be believed.

Compared to the BATF, though...the Jedi are also expected to put the "greater good" ahead of their OWN needs, or even their own survival. This is something surely missing from your typical BATFE field training manual.

As for CCW holders...how many on here have said they'd never draw their gun to aid another? What kind of Jedi would that make you?
 
Why would anyone compare themselves to a Jedi? Their entire brain trust regularly came into contact with the two most evil men in the universe and couldn't figure them out.

Besides, you'd have to start speaking English like it was a poor third or fourth language and deliver it woodenly. :p
 
There are plenty of C3PO's also:

Namby-pamby "protocol" (re: politically correct) "droids" (re:sheeple) who benefit from the protection of the Jedi's, rebels, ect. All they know how to do is throw up their hands, run in circles and say "OH MY GOODNESS, GOODNESS ME!!" when the bad guys come around. ;)
 
Hmmm..comparing oneself to fictional knights who fly around the galaxy dispatching evil doers, fighting the forces of evil for the good of mankind?

Naaa, nothing written here that will ever come back to haunt you if you end up using your CCW.

It may be fun to pretend, but maybe you should think of becoming a cop or something, instead of someone who carries a weapon for SELF DEFENSE.
 
Personally, I'd sooner you did not compare me to a Jedi. But on the gripping hand, I think guys like ...
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You left Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle off your list. ;)

pax
 
Libertarians, or at least, the modern followers of Rand, are moral relativists. The only immoral act to them is interfering in their lives.
Wrong Wrong Wrong... Most Libertarians are moral relativists, believing that any action is acceptable so long as it doesn't hurt other people.

Randians however, are staunch opponents of moral relativism. Their morality is that of rational self-interest. People should in general take actions that benefit themselves but don't violate the rights of others. This is different from 'crude self-interest' and hedonism. A hedonist would do drugs because they are fun, an objectivist wouldn't, as drugs are harmful to the body and mind.

If you care to actually see what randian morality is, I recommend the virtue of selfishness. You'll find that objectivists have fixed moral principles.

Selfless, a Jedi must be, (to paraphrase Yoda), and selfless Randians are not. Quite the opposite, in fact, if the weblogs are to be believed.
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True, the jedi behave altruistically, if you believe the jedi, but if you believe the sith, the jedi are as power hungry as any other faction. Randians aren't selfless. The weblogs are correct, you won't see many randians going around advocating handouts to the poor anytime soon.

atek3
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"I swear, by my life, and my love for it, that I will never live for another man, nor ask another man to live for me."

I once talked a girl down from suicide. I didn't have to. I didn't even know her. Had she killed herself, it would not have hurt me nor anyone I am close to. It was her choice, her body. Yet there I stayed, for over an hour, talking her down, then calling her mother.

That girl is still alive today, because I interfered in her life. Under objectivist philosphy, what I did was an immoral act. At first, she thought so too, but I told her, "Fine, be mad at me. At least you'll be alive to be mad."

The objectivist will never risk his life to aid another. He can, without any weight on his "moral" compass, avoid so much as lifting a finger to help another, so long as he didn't put that person in that bad situation in the first place.

Hardly Jedi material, I should think. This is also contrary to the teachings of the vast majority of the world's religions and major philosophies, but that's no trouble as all objectivists are by definition atheists. But that is the sort of thing that will prevent a philosophical movement from gaining a lot of steam, in case anyone was puzzling about it.

Anyway, getting away from Philosophy 101 and more towards the original topic (the problem with these discussions is you never convince anyone of anything and get frustrated for your trouble), Jedi are more like lawmen from the Old West, or US Marshals. Back then, they had quite a bit of leeway in how they conducted their business. In some cases, order was brought by shooting those miscrients that simply insisted on giving everyone a hard time. Unacceptable policing by modern standards, but on a wayward frontier courts and lawyers can be hard to come by.

The Jedi further resemble the old-timey US Marshals in that they answer only to the Republic Senate, not to the mish-mash of planetary and local governments they encounter. They serve to enforce the law of the land (galaxy) even when local officials or prinicpalities are violating it or allowing wrongs to go unchecked.

Above all, though, it's fantasy...
 
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