CCW holders. Would you protect a stranger...

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A man who does not help in the face of danger is a coward.
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I wish I agreed with this. I want to agree with this, and I think that morally I do... but my obligation is to raise my kids. By entering into a situation with a firearm, to help a stranger I put my family at risk of me being shot, or me going to jail.

A coward is someone who turns thier head... I would not do that, I would do what I could to assist short of killing another person to save a stranger and risk losing my life, or leaving my family in emotional and financial ruins.

What would your wife and kids feel about that freakshow... just asking, because I did ask my wife and kids and though they would want me to help if I could, they would NOT want me to do it at thier peril.
 
If your conscience compels you to action, call 911, keep a safe distance, and give a detailed account of what's happening with precise descriptions of the individuals.
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+1 :)

Here's some light reading for you that think otherwise.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary/comm_dangers_in_intervention.asp

It amazes me how so many people that would otherwise be rational and have the ability to engage in critical thinking become "instinctive and reactive" once they start carrying a gun. Carrying a gun is a "thinking" persons game, because it ain't no game.

If you want to save the world go join Greenpeace or somethin'.

BikerRN
 
I'm callin' 911 to vector in the pros--I ain't engagin' directly until the fight comes to me or mine.

Now, if somebody insists on making it Time Zero and Ground Zero, on the other hand... then I'll do what I gotta do to protect myself and my own. I just hope Time Zero never comes...
 
Tough question. My first instinct would be to make sure I was absolutely positive who was really the "bad" guy ... if in fact that could even be determined. Often they are both "bad guys".

I would be far more likely to intercede if it was an elderly person, female or child that was being attacked by an young male adult and it was clear that the attacker intended to and had the means to inflict serious injury (not just a purse snatch for example).

And I would certainly consider where I was located at that moment. Am I in my home state, where I feel I understand my rights and obligations with CCW? Or am I in a state where my CCW may be honored but I have no good understanding of how state LEOs approach issues of self-defense or defense of others. Seattle is now definitely off my list of places where I would intercede. If the citizens tolerate police actions as described, then it is clear that they are also OK being victims.

My wife and I purchased our firearms and then trained and obtained our CCW permits to protect ourselves and those we love when it appears that LEOs cannot arrive in time to do so. In AZ, you are quite safe doing that. From newspaper accounts about relevant incidents, it seems clear that AZ LEOs are comfortable with the concept of self defense by responsible citizens. But I have been led to believe that most states are not quite as second amendment friendly as AZ. Some states appear to be downright hostile to the idea of protecting yourself with force.
 
What if one had been a cop? He didn't know.

Your question, would you help if you KNEW they were innocent, cannot be applied to the story here since the guy clearly didn't know that.

It's a perfectly fair question on its own but you can't combine it with this story here. 2 completely different situations.
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The question was not whether the man that was stabbed was innocent, or if you knew he was innocent would you help, but rather read to convey that you the friend are walking with the guy and the mob is after the guy (that assumed to be helping a guy that had been stabbed).

You know the guy is innocent, you were there with him! You know he didn't do anything wrong, he knows he didn't do anything wrong.... so would you help him

I would stay and help with the guy that was walking out, facing the angry mob. And you better believe that a bullet flying to the mob would scare the heeby-geebies out of them to stop what they were doing.... and darn skippy I'm calling the Police because you know the other members in the mob will do the same thing and claim you assaulted them witha deadly weapon. Better to have a witness there on your side to help defend yourself against the angry mob when the police get there.
 
No offense, but some of the claims in the story like the one about paramedics being ordered, by police, to cease in rendering aid to a person with those type of injuries, just doesn't smell right to me.
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I concur. But, as to the general question, "Would you protect a stranger?", my answer is yes, with a fair number of qualifications.

First, as far as I'm concerned, If I were to come across a situation in which I could come to the aid of of an innocent person I'd do so in a heartbeat. At least I'd hope I would . . . I suppose few of us can accurately predict exactly how we'd react in a high-stress, life-or-death scenario.

With all the bravado tossed about here and in similar forums about "sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs," I'm always a little surprised when I see someone say, in effect, "if it's not my problem, I'm walking away." I applaud those folks for their candor, but I think it's morally wrong--how many times has the decision to walk away, to avert one's eyes, led to great tragedy? Maybe if I'm ever confronted with the situation I'll find that I'm a coward, but I would hope that my first impulse would always be to intervene on behalf of a defenseless victim.

Nonetheless, there's a clear line between acting in a moral manner and acting rashly. Actually, turning to the original, fishy story, it seemed to me that the author was pretty stupid--intervening in an apparent instance of mutual combat, with no knowledge of who was the aggressor and who was the victim. To me, that's just dumb. Further, given the way these things unfold, it seems quite likely that one will choose the wrong side or, at a minimum, manage to get one's self killed or seriously hurt. Speaking as a former cop, I can also note that it's not unheard of for two dipsticks who are fighting one another to turn on a peacemaker. Nope . . . in the scenario originally described, our superhero just used poor judgment.

So, my conclusion is yes, I would definitely step in to protect an innocent victim. I would just hope that if I'm ever confronted with such a situation that it's as clear-cut as I hope it would be. If it's a couple of idiots duking it out, or if it's not clear who's right or wrong, call the cops and maintain a safe distance.
 
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A man who does not help in the face of danger is a coward.
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Sure seems to me like some extra danger was created.

Before: Two man physical altercation

After: Angry mob rioting in the streets and a touch of racial tension

I too wish I agreed, but unless I personally know that its the life or death of an innocent person and what the outcome/ result of my interference will be, Im stayin out of it.
 
Define "help". While you do, I'll be a good witness on the phone with 911. That's how I'd help.

It would be ridiculous to put your life at risk for something that you can't even define. If you think you can jump into the middle of something and you're not putting your life at risk, you have a serious case of 'little man wit a big gun' arrogance. There's no way you can determine what is happening or where it will end up. It's just not worth it.
 
Way to many inconsistincies in this guys story. First off, no jail, and certainly no big city facility will take in a prisoner with any open wounds or obvious serious injuries. The intake deputy will ALWAYS require medical clearance from a hospital before booking, for the simple reason that the sheriff will not assume liabilty for those injuries already sustained nor do they want the possibility of the injuries being blamed on jail staff. 2nd no paramedic when summoned to treat someone as seriously injured as this guy claims to have been will just pack up and leave before completing his exam. There are many, many other inconsistencies but his assertion that NO LAWYER in Seattle would take his civil case against the jail/officers is mind boggling. That is the exact kind of case that lawyers dream of. An "innocent" victim and a defendant (King County/Seattle) with VERY deep pockets. While I imagine there is a level of truth in his story, it appears to have been quite embellished.
 
I would "help" by calling the police.It's their job,not mine as a cpl holder.WAY to great of a chance the "good-guy" ends-up paying dearly in the end (hurt,dead or in jail)I carry to protect myself and my loved ones,make me fear for my or their safety/life and I will not hesitate to protect them.Most everyone else better hope the police get there quick.For those who don't want to be a "coward",make sure to have that put on your grave marker or bright orange jump-suit :rolleyes:
 
BikerRN that is a great article. Thank you for posting it, it may be on eof the most helpful things on here.
 
I have to lean towards "no" here. Mostly because SC law holds that you cannot claim Self Defense if you are a party to the altercation, i.e. you engage in an exchange of heated words with someone and he pulls a knife, you can't claim Self Defense if you shoot him.
It also states that if you use deadly force on behalf of someone else, then you are placed in their stead and if a Self Defense claim wouldn't have been available to them, then you can't claim it for yourself in acting on their behalf.

So if I walk up on something already happening I have no way of knowing if the guy who's about to get stabbed was an innocent victim who was "legal" for me to help or someone who bit off more than they could chew and was about to get stuck after starting an altercation. So my self defense pistol is for exactly that...self defense.
 
A man who does not help in the face of danger is a coward.
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A wise man.

Personally, I used to have the attitude, "If it isn't me or mine, they are on their own."

One of my students raised his hand one day in class when I remarked the clerk at the store was on her own in a violent armed robbery scenario. He said, "What if that was my daughter?"

That was a very interesting perspective that has since changed me in a big way.

If it was my mother about to be shot, I'd be very grateful for a man with some testicles and a personal defense tool to intervene to save her from death or great bodily injury.

And I expect those of you who say you wouldn't intervene to save an innocent stranger would probably appreciate it if I intervened to save your daughter from abduction or your wife from harm.

John
 
Done it. Not armed at the time, but one of the reason I am armed now. I just couldn't let the guy beat his wife in front of me anymore.

Working in a convenience store late at night. Lady runs in face covered with blood screaming that he's trying to kill her, and help help. I call 911. Guy comes in and goes to beating on her. I call him out, and get her into the office. He threatens to kill me. He jumps counter and goes after my coworker. I grab his arm from behind, and dislocate his shoulder. His wife comes out and leaves with him. My last view of her was of him driving with his left arm, and her having yanked his right into socket getting beat with it. Cops came and took a statement to late to do any good. I gave them plate number of course, but nothing was expected. Guy came back and wrote me a check giving me his name, address, DL number, and phone number. I called cops back, and had him picked up on 'Assault by Threat' charges. Never heard a thing about it again.

But, I'd do it again in the same situation.
 
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I wish I agreed with this. I want to agree with this, and I think that morally I do... but my obligation is to raise my kids. By entering into a situation with a firearm, to help a stranger I put my family at risk of me being shot, or me going to jail.
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I want my kids to know their dad doesn't stand around and watch someone get beaten/stabbed to death in front of him. There are bigger things, in the grand scheme of things, than my own skin.

I'm not a tough guy, but this whole "I look after me and mine" philosophy always bothers me. I'm not jumping into a fistfight between to grown men; I am screaming my head off for security or a cop (and I am defending my person if one of the combatants decides that I should their next target). Because I'd hope someone would do it for me if they saw me getting beaten. Or for my SO, or for my kid, or my mom, or any one. It's a basic function of living in a civilized society that we at least pretend to care about our neighbors. I know it's so very libertarian to mind your own business, but are we so far down that road that we no longer need to care if someone lives or dies as long as we don't personally know them? Criminals and a$$holes of all stripe have their lives made easier knowing how many people can't or won't get involved.
 
Yes I would appreciate it,but,I could not blame you if you did'nt.I have thought about it from that angle in the past but still say MY #1 responseabilty is to me and my family.Also,as far as adults go we have a choice to do everything we can to protect ourself's,or not,and let the police do it for us.We who carry made our choice,and those who don't made theirs.
 
CCW holders. Would you protect a stranger...?
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A quote from Martin Luther ((((that I have never been able to verify for sure.

"Not only do I have the right to defend myself, I have a duty to protect others."

I agree with him.

No, I'm not a cop, or anything else. But I will not watch a victim get killed, raped, murdered, maimed, beaten, stabbed, ect, ect.

Say what you want, but I'll bet if I protected the life of your mother, sister, brother, ect you would be thankful. AND I'll bet if I stood there, or walked off while they were being killed or raped, you would ask "Why didn't you do something?
 
We have a moral duty to protect the weak and innocent. HOWEVER, don't get yourself involved in a situation where you are not clear on identifying the "innocent victim" from the "aggressor".

Sometimes, there is no "innocent" party. In many domestic violence cases, if you intervene, (man beating up on a woman), that very woman you just helped will turn around to attack you later on in court for shooting/beating up her man. (In no way am I implying that the woman is at fault or that she deserves her abuse. Not at all. I am just commenting on human psychology. There are those who stick by their abusers and are psychologically dependent on them.)

You see two guys beating up on one guy... Looks simple enough. Right? Well, guy getting beat up could be the original aggressor and the other two making a citizen's arrest. Or it could be a gang initiation... you intervene...and the whole pack turns on you.

So...unless you are a cop... slow down and down be in a hurry to unholster your weapon. Unholster your phone instead and call 911. I would yell at them to stop and warn them that I called the police.

I would assess the situation...and may jump in...but only after I am understand what is going on.
 
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Short answer no. Long answer yes. Too many variables must be assessed with the unique situation and the fact that I have a firearm should not matter when it comes to doing what is right.
 
Sure I would. I would be a good witness. I would call 911. I would get as good a description as possible. I would start screaming my fool head off to the effect of "HELP! HELP! HE'S KILLING THAT MAN! HELP!" I can be REALLY loud when need be, after raising four children.

What I would NOT do is wade in, all almost-55 years old, rheumatoid arthritis disabled parts of me, and try to get into a fight.

This idea that one must either get physically involved or else be a coward is nonsense. Mindset, skillset, toolset. Use the first and you may not need anything else.

Jan
 
This isn't a simple yes or no answer. I guess I would have to say it depends.

My first and most important responsibility is to my wife and kids. That being said, I don't think I could see a woman being raped or an old man/woman pummeled and not do anything.

However, as described in the OP, a fight in a bar or concert? I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. I would let security know and let them handle it.
 
I haven't had time to read the whole thread so this may have been addressed alreadybut, wasn't trying to protect some random stranger what started this whole mess in the first place?
 
This is a great question and I love reading all the different answers. I have steped in at a concert to stop this guy from beating his exgirl friend. I watched it all unflod untill he hit her then as soon as I got up off the lawn others helped I had no gun with me. if this was in the street I would of helped also and would of had my gun but would not of pulled it untill the threat was on me. Lets face it if you pull your gun in public you will end in court. So in my State/Commonwealth the only reason to pull your gun is a life threat on me or my family no other reason would fly in court I dont think also dont want to find out. But very good questions:)

Oh forgot one answer If I had my glock I would have 51 rounds if I had my M&P I would have 24 rounds
 
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