Cecil

[X-Rap]

My take away on this lion business is that we ignore the combined power of the MSM and social networking in its ability to mass opinion of the public.
How many of us has been involved in an activity so far out in the sticks that we thought no one would ever know what we were doing? That time is gone.
Whether the Dr knowingly broke the law or not he has been judged and convicted and quite probably his and his family's life will never be the same.
Does anyone know who broke this publicly?
How did the word spread so quickly?
I started this separate thread so as to focus the subject on the power of the media and social networking and how it can impact the sport of hunting as well as the 2A when some obscure activity in the African Outback can go worldwide in such a viral manner.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Two weeks form now ask anyone their opinion on Cecil and they will look at you with a blank stare as their mind churns to remember why that name sounds familiar and why it's important.

That's the world we live in now. Instant outrage, instantly forgotten.

Sandra Bland who?

 

[psyopspec]

How many of us has been involved in an activity so far out in the sticks that we thought no one would ever know what we were doing?

My activities out in the sticks were always of the no-harm/consenting adult variety. They didn't involve poaching.

Does anyone know who broke this publicly?

Put it this way, the pics of he and his trophy weren't taken and then uploaded to the internet by a spy agency acting in secret.

I don't like mobs and mob rule and won't participate, but on the other hand and equally I sure as hell don't finding poaching to be a defensible activity. Not in Namibia any more than in North Dakota. That he may have been an unwitting participant isn't worth much to me–if you can't hunt within the law, you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[X-Rap]

This is an evolving phenomenon and I believe it grows in strength each cycle we see, today it is just the ruin of a man, tomorrow maybe the ruin of a right.
The ability to rally behind a given issue is only exceeded by the weakness of our leaderships knees.
Over the recent years there have been some serious consequences paid by those who have come under attack in similar ways.

 

[X-Rap]

I'm not interested in the man so much as how he was swept up in this wave of worldwide judgement and that because as the power to do so is refined (I doubt it can be controlled)
I think it will be directed at anything that might run contrary to what the world norm is. When/if that happens we as Americans need to be prepared because much of what makes us what we are does run counter to the world norms.
My reference to being out in the sticks was more to just not believing what you were doing mattered to anyone much the way you must have felt yourself.

 

[akv3g4n]

I'm not really sure why it matters who broke the story. The reason that I believe that it spread so quickly is because a majority of people, even those involved in gun rights and the shooting sports find trophy hunting objectionable. This was made much worse by the fact that the animal was a well known tourist attraction and that it suffered for ~40 hours before being killed.

 

[X-Rap]

All that may be true but the fact is 10 yrs ago this wouldn't have been able to happen. I think the progress that this story evolved is important.
If it all started with the Dr posting his pictures on his FB page to show his friends back home which of them knew it was Cecil?
There have been social media threads here in the past and it ends with people acting as though it is of little or no significance, I think the Dr. probably thinks different.

 

[danez71]

X-Rap - I don't mean to dump on your thread so please don't take it that way.

I think you raise a good topic that, IMO, belongs somewhere in Activism.


Social media is powerful and dare I say the anti's have used it better.

@pro2Apeople #how can we use social media to our advantage?

(or how ever that would be written if I was hip on social media )

 

[fireman 9731]

I wish everybody got as mad about shooting a kid as we do about shooting a lion.

 

[drcook]

This is not the dentist's first run in with a legal issue over hunting.

According to U.S. court records, Palmer pleaded guilty in 2008 to making false statements to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service about a black bear he fatally shot in western Wisconsin. Palmer had a permit to hunt but shot the animal outside the authorized zone in 2006, then tried to pass it off as being killed elsewhere, according to court documents. He was given one year of probation and fined nearly $3,000.

source of above quote: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015...t-said-to-have-paid-55000-to-kill-cecil-lion/

people like this make ethical hunters look bad. just like the bubbas that shoot up street signs and cell towers. my former shooting partner hated working on cell sites on W.Va. due to the bubbas shooting up the antennas.

I find deer bodies with the heads cut off, piles of beer cans in the woods after the deer season here in Ohio, on and on.

 

[C.R.]

Well, the true test of a Man is how you conduct yourself when you think nobody is watching you. IMHO baiting an animal out of a scantuary,and hunting at night with a spotlight is hardly sporting.This individual has also taken bear ileagly in Wisconsin,cost him over $ 3 grand so,he realy isnt a "Sportsman" just an egotistical dirtball that has succeded in making ALL hunters look bad.:banghead: He is only sorry he was cought .

 

[X-Rap]

Wrong thread CR

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Does anyone know who broke this publicly?

Maybe the University researchers who were following this lion and had a radio tracking collar on him? Maybe the park rangers who noticed that the alpha male and big tourist draw was gone? Reports are that the lion was pretty used to humans and would play in the road in front of vehicles.

How did the word spread so quickly?

Favorite local tourist attraction, it's like killing someones pet after you baited him onto your property. That'll spread fast. Sounds like the guy should have notified authorities as soon as he found the lion had a radio collar, since it seems radio-collared animals are off limits to hunting (kinda makes it non sporting after all). But, as C.R. mentioned, this guy has done some shady things in the past and some sources make it sould like he may have wanted to kill this lion specifically.

So, just like when you're hunting way out in the sticks - be sure your quarry is legal to take or you may get unwanted attention.

 

[C.R.]

word travels fast now days I guess . in our wired up internet connected world any whiff of something hinkey can go around the world nearly instantly ,so one must conduct theirselves in a manner that is beyond reproach weather you beleive someone is observing you ,or you are alone. unfortuanatly for the individual in question he has acted in a manner that has brought him into the spotlight. Also he has a record of wildlife violations and those are also easy to find and share on line, and that brings even more heat. Social media is a two edged sword . And no matter what gets said stuff can get twisted,or edited and the stories take off. Like post # 2 said on this threas in 2 weeks itll be forgotten pushed aside by catlyn jenners latest exploits or some other media feeding frenzie. Be carefull out there folks it will probably only get worse

 

[akarguy]

he claims he did not know that the lion had a radio collar. let's assume for a moment that is true. The local officials in Zimbabwe are still claiming that this was an illegal hunt yet supposedly he had all the permits in place. Has anyone actually seen or heard of what local laws he may have broken to characterize this hunt as illegal? Is it illegal to bait or draw an animal out of protected areas? I read he jacked it at night with a spotlight. I guess if any of this is illegal hunt under Zimbabwe law he could be toast here too because of the Lacey Act (assuming he imported any part of that animal).

 

[ATLDave]

Don't violate hunting laws and conservation laws, don't kill individually famous animals, don't kill endangered animals; do that, and you won't have these problems. Based on the available facts, this guy has been a bad actor for years.

Hunters are some of the best conservationists around, and when one of them strays from that mindset, the hunting community needs to be swift and unequivocal in the denunciation.

I have trouble mustering the level of compassion for this person that my religion says I should feel.

 

[ATLDave]

Also, I'll note the irony of this being filed under "general gun discussions." The person in question used a crossbow, not a firearm (though his guides ultimately had to use a gun to put the animal out of its hours-long misery). And, at least when he's home in America, he probably cannot own a firearm, thanks to that poaching felony plea. At least that's my understanding at the moment.

 

[bdrift10]

I didn't even know who Cecil was until today. I'm more worried about stuff that happens in the states than in Africa. Crazier $#!T happens all the time.

 

[psyopspec]

word travels fast now days I guess . in our wired up internet connected world any whiff of something hinkey can go around the world nearly instantly ,so one must conduct theirselves in a manner that is beyond reproach weather you beleive someone is observing you ,or you are alone.

I guess that's one way of thinking about it. Another is to simply to have the integrity to do the right thing even when no one is watching–social media or otherwise.

 

[ATLDave]

^^^ This. I don't think the standard is "beyond reproach." Just not incompetently and illegally killing an endangered animal should be sufficient to avoid this particular problem.

Wildlife management laws are real laws. Ignore them and face big problems.

 

[leadcounsel]

To answer the OPs question, being outraged over big game hunting is not new. This is just the most recent public example of a "person" (I used that term very loosely because in my view he is of the lowest ilk) who gets thrills from causing pain and suffering. On par with dog fighting, and he's able to do it because of uber financial privilege.

His nefarious acts resulted in a 2008 Federal conviction. Not sure if that would prevent his gun ownership, or interfere with his medical license. All quite peculiar.

Now his nefarious acts - far from any legitimate "hunting" was to lure and bait a big adult healthy cat from its protective sanctuary, shine lights on it at night, and shoot it with an underpowered bow which wounded it.

That cat, a widely known cat, was quite popular in the region and was GPS monitored. He attempted to destroy the evidence but the carcass was located due to the GPS.

The organization that monitored the GPS found the carcass and located his "guides" and the trail was easy to pick up from there with his Passport and other information. I'm sure the guides handed him over in an instant.

I guess that's one way of thinking about it. Another is to simply to have the integrity to do the right thing even when no one is watching–social media or otherwise.

I agree. Apparently this dentist doesn't do the right thing. In 2008 he was caught lying to the Feds about the location of his bear kill, having drug it some 40 miles from illegal territory to attempt to cover it up.

And as for basically buying a trophy for $50,000 or whatever to claim to be a brave hunter, when all you're doing is luring a cat from shelter to the open so you can shoot it, has zero merit. None. I cannot fathom how anyone could feel any sense of joy or pride in such ruthless behavior.

 

[ATLDave]

^^^ Well said. Though I would differentiate between outrage over "big game hunting" and outrage over "endangered (charistmatic) species hunting." Cape Buffalo are big game (some of the most dangerous and difficult, from what I have read). They are also abundant. If someone wants to hunt them, great. Hope they cook up tastily.

Hunting protected species - an act which may rob your children or grandchildren of living in a world with that type of animal - is monstrous. The poaching in Africa is horrendous, and I'm inclined to think some public hangings would help matters.

 

[alsaqr]

Yep, Cecil the lion had a tracking collar. That collar should have been very visible at crossbow range.

This one will cost the scofflaw dentist big time in loss of clients.

In the letter to his patients at River Bluff Dental in Bloomington, Palmer again said he did not know Cecil was a well-known lion who had been collared for a study until he had finished the hunt. He made the same claim in a statement to the media eariler Tuesday.

..................................................................................................................

On Tuesday, a “We the People” petition was launched on the official White House website in hopes of extraditng Palmer to Zimbabwe so he can face justice. It already has more than 66,000 signatures.

“Two of Palmer’s local accomplices are already in custody. Zimbabwe authorities now actively seeking Palmer in connection with this incident,” the petition reads in part. “We urge the Secretary Of State John Kerry and the Attorney General Loretta Lynch to fully cooperate with the Zimbabwe authorities and to extradite Walter Palmer promptly at the Zimbabwe government’s request.”

http://news.yahoo.com/letter-to-pat...il-the-lion-s-death-apologizes-165511095.html

 

[cheygriz]

I always thought "Cecil" was a "seasick sea serpent."

 

[Nom de Forum]

I started this separate thread so as to focus the subject on the power of the media and social networking and how it can impact the sport of hunting as well as the 2A when some obscure activity in the African Outback can go worldwide in such a viral manner.

I am very pleased with the power of the media and social networking. The First Amendment was created impart to have the power to expose "some obscure activity" to the public to aid in the prevention of obscurity people contemplating and doing evil desire. We live in a World today that anyone contemplating doing something evil should be well aware that never in history has it been so easy to be observed, reported upon, and suffer consequences. What that Dentist did was a premeditated act of evil, not a case of unintended error. There is no way that man was duped into doing what he did. The lesson all defenders of the 2A should take from this incident is to not take actions that are illegal or even ill mannered because you have a high probability of exposure and may with one bad act do more harm to the defense of the 2A than a million new 2A supporters can compensate for.