CFE223, Hornady 55 SP, load dilemma

[Necessary_Nutrient]

I have been trying to work up a load for CFE 223 with the Hornady 55 grain SoftPoint. I got some chrony data and testing results from three different rifles today. The loads are well within the specifications for this bullet and that powder, but I am getting some pressure signs out of one rifle. The Savage 25 walking varminter w/ 22” barrel that I have is showing very difficult extraction with all of these loads. I can force it, but it’s way harder than it should be.

The following book data is available:



my loads use:
Case: IMI 5.56
Primer: CCI 400
COAL: 2.20
Charges used: 26.3, 26.5, 26.7, 26.9

The 26.5 load is particularly popular with the Hornady 55 Soft Point bullet. Accuracy is amazing!

The velocities I am getting for the loads from the Savage 25, 22" are:
26.5 Grains
3026
3080
3103
Avg: 3070, STD: 39.53

26.7 Grains
3129
3100
3128
Avg: 3119, STD 16.46

The other two rifles I used were AR-15's. The 26.7 load was the best shooting of the three, got (3 shot) groups of 1/2", 1/2", 5/8" from 3 different rifles which is plenty good enough for my needs but the Savage kept having difficult extraction. I cleaned the chamber and hit it with a bit of breakfree but it did not help.

I'm at a bit of a standstill. If I hadn't used this rifle for the development I would have been happy with the performance in the two AR's and loaded them up. Primers don't look any different than the factory Fiocchi after firing. The Hornady load above is the exact same family of 55 grain bullets and they recommend the same 2.20 inch COAL. I guess that 26.7 is the 2nd highest step in the chart but it's still well under "Max" and while I know that we're supposed to work up, I'm surprised that the IMI case and a CCI 400 could make this much difference. Any ideas? Would it be reasonable to just fire these in the other rifles?

I'm mixing up 500 of these, all of them IMI cases already primed with CCI 400's and I don't really want to switch powders and start over but could.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

The Savage is .223 if im correct. Smaller chamber than an AR if yours are .556. You will get more pressure with the Savage. Back the load down to starting data and proceed.

 

[lordpaxman]

Different guns, different loads. It’s the nature of the beast.
If you did the load workup in the bolt rifle, there should have been some earlier loads that weren’t difficult to extract, and hopefully accurate.
The IMI cases I get are crimped NATO and I suspect a thicker brass. I’ve not done a H2O test but wouldn’t be surprised if they have less volume. I don’t have a bolt .223 so I’m not going to be any help, but on other calibers where I have multiple guns, this is the way it works.

 

[ballman6711]

Back the load down to starting data and proceed.

You can do this ^^^ and load for the Savage, then use that load for all three guns.

Would it be reasonable to just fire these in the other rifles?

You could use your current load for your AR's and develop a load just for the Savage. Doing this would require keeping your ammo separated to prevent issues.

I don't really want to switch powders and start over but could.

Another powder could be a solution, but you may still show pressure signs in the Savage where you may not in the AR's.

chris

 

[MakBaba]

The IMI brass I’ve used have been light weight (about 92g). Same as LC, FC, and most other 223 brass.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

As Ballman suggested. I load for my Savage Axis separate from my AR and mini 14 loads. I use the Hornady custom grade dies for it. On a Lyman T-Mag press.

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

Great suggestions and info, thank you! It's a little disappointing not being able to use this load for all the rifles but I'll mull it over and either back down for all or just use them separately.

Factory ammo varies so much in velocity. I bought some Winchester White Box 55 Grain 223 FMJ and have some Fiocchi 55 Grain 223 SP. Both are listed at 3240 velocity, but the results I get from the 22" Savage are:

Fiocchi: Avg of about 3040
WWB: Avg of about 3230

Of course, both factory ammunition cases drop easily out of the 223 chamber

One more question if you all wouldn't mind... Given that the brass looks fine and the load is well within spec, can I be reasonably sure that the 5.56 and .223 Wylde chambers of the ARs are not seeing objectionable pressure spikes? Or, would you use the clues provided by the 223 Bolt rifle and be susupicious of the case/primer/powder combo?

 

[Casefull]

Good chance the brass is too long for the bolt rifle. Trim it to spec. If that’s not it, the bullets may be touching the lands.

 

[ballman6711]

One more question if you all wouldn't mind... Given that the brass looks fine and the load is well within spec, can I be reasonably sure that the 5.56 and .223 Wylde chambers of the ARs are not seeing objectionable pressure spikes? Or, would you use the clues provided by the 223 Bolt rifle and be susupicious of the case/primer/powder combo?

Have you chrono'd the load from the two AR's? If so, are they at or below book specs? Or what you would consider "reasonable"? If so, I would say they are ok in the .556 and Wylde chambered rifles.

The .223 has a shorter chamber/leade and that might be why you're getting the pressure problems. The bolt rifle may also have a small/tight/short chamber/leade which would exacerbate the problem.

If it were me I would shoot it out of the AR's, and come up with something else for the Savage.

chris

 

[Blue68f100]

The 223 Wylde chamber is designed with long leads to accommodate heavy weight, aka long bullets. It also makes it suitable for 556. I dought that the bullets are hitting the rifling in the Wylde chamber but can in some cases. Long brass can cause a issue.

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

Have you chrono'd the load from the two AR's? If so, are they at or below book specs? Or what you would consider "reasonable"? If so, I would say they are ok in the .556 and Wylde chambered rifles.

The .223 has a shorter chamber/leade and that might be why you're getting the pressure problems. The bolt rifle may also have a small/tight/short chamber/leade which would exacerbate the problem.

If it were me I would shoot it out of the AR's, and come up with something else for the Savage.

chris

Yes, while both AR's were 20" barrels, I have their info. The 26.7 load is as follows:
RRA Varmint A4 20"
2983
3056
3020
Avg: 3020

Bushmaster VMatch 20"
3013
3006
3031
Avg: 3017

I think that matches up nicely with the estimate of 3100 FPS from a 24" barrel at the same charge.

Appreciate all the advice from everyone, I'm leaning towards doing exactly what you suggest- Use the 26.7's in AR's and develop a round for the 223 bolt gun separately.

Good chance the brass is too long for the bolt rifle. Trim it to spec. If that’s not it, the bullets may be touching the lands.

it was all trimmed to 1.750 so that shouldn’t be an issue.