Chamfering vs flaring/crimping for 9mm?

Show Me said:
I've nothing newer than the 90' so I'm not a good responder but I did order an extra pusher and ground it flat. I think it was in my wadcutter days
Click to expand...
I did that with a Redding Competition seater. Great for any flat nosed bullet, works with many HPs as well. I just ordered the seater plug, welded it up, and faced it off.
 
LiveLife said:
Yes, I am curious too.

Perhaps bullet tilting during seating? Differing amount of flare from different resized case lengths? Scraping bullet while applying taper crimp?


Same here.

For calibers that headspace off case mouth, I do not want to chamfer inside of case mouth because you are decreasing the surface area that can "headspace" with the chamber.

NOTE: I also use minimal to no taper crimp so case mouth/neck seal with the chamber faster for less gas leakage.


I have used just enough flare to set the bullet without tiipping/tilting during seating but problem is unless you sort resized cases by length, mixed range brass will produce different resized case length to result different amount of flare. (To address this issue when using mixed range brass, I measure sample of various headstamp brass and use shorter ones to set the flare amount so longer case will apply slightly larger amount of flare :))

As to amount of taper crimp, I just return flare back flat on the bullet. To achieve this, I add average thickness of case wall to the bullet diameter. So for .3555" sized RMR bullet, .3555" + .011" + .011" = ~.378" at case mouth.

And as requested by their customer base, Lee Precision addressed these issue FOREVER (No need for flare, no bullet tilt/tipping, no bullet scraping) with stepped "M" powder through expander which, regardless of resized case length, eliminated bullet tilt/tipping issue during seating and indexing with inline bullet feeder die (No more fussing with flare amount and different resized case lengths) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-through-expander.916523/page-4#post-12725787

If you look at the zoomed in picture of RMR 124 gr FMJ loaded to 1.130" with .378" taper crimp, on the right side of case mouth, you will note sharp right angle of case mouth with gradual taper crimp following "tapered 9mm case" contour with even bulging of case neck at bullet base to show even neck tension - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/thr-group-project-pistol-advanced-reloading-concepts-and-discussions.778197/p(age-10#post-11419509

index.php


These were minimally flared and deflared cases using old powder through expander with .378" taper crimp applied at case mouth (Note even bulging of case neck at bullet base to express sufficient neck tension ... None of these produced bullet setback)

index.php


These were used with stepped "M" style Lee powder through expander with .378" taper crimp applied at case mouth (Note secondary bulging at top of case neck to show "stepped" expanding but also even bulging of case neck at bullet base to express sufficient neck tension ... None of these produced bullet setback) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...powder-through-expander.916523/#post-12569719

index.php
Click to expand...
Has the “secondary” bulge caused any issues with passing the cartridge gauge? Do you use the FCD with the new Lee expander?
 
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Zendude said:
Has the “secondary” bulge caused any issues with passing the cartridge gauge? Do you use the FCD with the new Lee expander?
Click to expand...
While I primarily use Lee dies, I do not use FCD for my usual reloading of different jacketed/plated/coated lead/lubed lead bullets of various semi-auto calibers and they all pass my various barrels including Lone Wolf 40S&W barrels which have tightest chambers I know. (With larger sized coated/lubed lead 9mm/40S&W/45ACP bullets, I use headstamp brass with thinner case walls if thicker case wall brass do not pass the "plunk" test - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

And "secondary" bulge (I am sure members using other stepped "M" style expanders can verify) has not caused feeding/chambering issues or affected bullet setback - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...powder-through-expander.916523/#post-12569719

Bullet setback test of finished rounds with Lee stepped "M" style PTX (RMR 115 gr FMJ used due to shorter bullet base than 124 gr FMJ to better test neck tension ... Fed/chambered in test pistol Gen3 Glock 22 with KKM 40-9mm conversion barrel and 9mm 10 round factory magazine loaded with 5 rounds - R-P case - OAL before - OAL after - Bullet setback):​
  1. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  2. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  3. R-P "." - 1.131" - 1.131" - .000"
  4. R-P "." - 1.129" - 1.129" - .000"
  5. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  6. R-P "." - 1.129" - 1.129" - .000"
  7. R-P "." - 1.129" - 1.129" - .000"
  8. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  9. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  10. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
RMR 115 gr FMJ were seated to target OAL of 1.130" into R-P "." brass and finished rounds showed distinct double bulging of case neck with top bulge from "step" of "M" style PTX

FRMPTX.jpg


In comparison, same bullets were loaded using regular PTX and finished rounds lack the double bulging on case neck

FRNPTX.jpg
 
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LiveLife said:
While I primarily use Lee dies, I do not use FCD for my usual reloading of different jacketed/plated/coated lead/lubed lead bullets of various semi-auto calibers and they all pass my various barrels including Lone Wolf 40S&W barrels which have tightest chambers I know. (With larger sized coated/lubed lead 9mm/40S&W/45ACP bullets, I use headstamp brass with thinner case walls if thicker case wall brass do not pass the "plunk" test - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

And "secondary" bulge (I am sure members using other stepped "M" style expanders can verify) has not caused feeding/chambering issues or affected bullet setback - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...powder-through-expander.916523/#post-12569719

Bullet setback test of finished rounds with Lee stepped "M" style PTX (RMR 115 gr FMJ used due to shorter bullet base than 124 gr FMJ to better test neck tension ...Test pistol Gen3 Glock 22 with KKM 40-9mm conversion barrel and 9mm 10 round factory magazine loaded with 5 rounds - OAL before - OAL after - Bullet setback):​
  1. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  2. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  3. R-P "." - 1.131" - 1.131" - .000"
  4. R-P "." - 1.129" - 1.129" - .000"
  5. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  6. R-P "." - 1.129" - 1.129" - .000"
  7. R-P "." - 1.129" - 1.129" - .000"
  8. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  9. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
  10. R-P "." - 1.130" - 1.130" - .000"
RMR 115 gr FMJ were seated to target OAL of 1.130" into R-P "." brass and finished rounds showed distinct double bulging of case neck with top bulge from "step" of "M" style PTX

FRMPTX.jpg


In comparison, same bullets were loaded using regular PTX and finished rounds lack the double bulging on case neck

FRNPTX.jpg
Click to expand...
I was going to say “the thing I like most about your posts is” but there are too many things I like most. Thanks!
 
PO2Hammer said:
The M die didn’t help, but the competition seater did.
Click to expand...
Both have been helpful to me, so much so on the M-Die style of expanding I have replaced most pistol die set expanders with that type, whether Lyman, RCBS, or Redding.
 
Walkalong said:
Both have been helpful to me, so much so on the M-Die style of expanding I have replaced most pistol die set expanders with that type, whether Lyman, RCBS, or Redding.
Click to expand...
I have done this also

I've used M-profile expanders from Lyman and Redding. I've used expanding inserts from DAA, Lee, and RCBS on various presses over the years
 
9mmepiphany said:
I have done this also

I've used M-profile expanders from Lyman and Redding. I've used expanding inserts from DAA, Lee, and RCBS on various presses over the years
Click to expand...
I did too without even knowing it actually. When I decided to swap out my Lee 45acp dies with Redding I also got their premium expander. Unbeknownst to me it is M type. Took cheaper route w/9mm and bought the new insert for $3.57.
 
I do not chamfer or deburr 9mm and even load coated bullets with very little flare, with some seaters.

The GSI feed/seat die keeps them straight enough, this is a case with bullet seated, ready for crimp and one behind it ready for one to be seated.

545E5117-AF5C-4478-8E7E-8C9652D9D349.jpeg

You need aa seating stem that keeps the bullet vertical vs entering the hole not aligned with it.

DA27F5C8-80CD-4BD4-B277-4466E065862D.jpeg


Straight in makes sure the coating stays there todo its job.

E73321F4-37DD-492D-B550-8142FCE651DC.jpeg FE6E1BF8-AEE5-48AF-8BBC-8839556E40AE.jpeg
 
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