Changing Platforms

[serpentine]

I have been lusting over the .357 Sig round for some time now. I'd like to pick one up but my options are limited. Being a 1911 guy, moving to something like a Sig P229 would be vastly different than what I'm used to.
Anyone jump platforms like this before? Anything from your experience to consider?

The Sig marketing team did their job well, the new P229 Legion looks great and I can order in .357 Sig. I'm considering it but am afraid I will never master the double action / single action trigger. I've considered looking into special ordering an M&P compact in 357 Sig (I read that they could be special ordered) and dropping in an Apex flat trigger. Apparently that comes close to the 1911 trigger. I could even have a thumb safety so it would not be a huge departure from the 1911. Lastly, I could commission someone to build a 1911 chambered in 357 Sig.

The last option is the most expensive, the M&P seems practical, and the Sig I fear will find its home in the safe rather than the holster because I will get frustrated with the trigger.

Anyone have their own experiences to share to aid in my decision?

 

[j1]

J1

Do not overly think about it. If you can rent one do so and just try it. I am almost sure that you will have no problems and will enjoy the pistol. Good luck.

 

[JTQ]

I'm a 1911 guy, but not a .357 SIG guy. Why not a .38 Super or 9x23 Winchester in a 1911? I'm sure there is somebody that really needs what the .357 SIG offers, but if it is just a novelty round, I think the .38 Super or 9x23 are just as practical and ahead in the novelty world, especially if you are a 1911 guy and concerned with your ability to switch to a TDA or striker fired gun.

 

[ny32182]

First, I'd question the infatuation with 357sig, why you want, it, and if you REALLY do want it.

The same thing happened to me one time. I thought 357sig would be great. It is "unique", and the bottleneck rounds look cool! I went and bought a G32+magazines, some factory ammo, brass, dies, case gauge, powder, bullets... and then reality set in:

-Factory ammo is expensive
-It is more of a PITA to reload, and the brass is not super common... so either way, you are probably not going to shoot it as much.
-Recoil is excessive vs similar cartridges

Today I have a pile of 357sig stuff waiting on the right buyer to come along (and if that is you, PM me).

Second, switching platforms: It takes dedicated practice for any platform switch to be successful. No way around it.

The "difficulty" of becoming competent with a DA/SA trigger is overrated. It isn't that hard. Just takes some practice like anything else. Dryfire is your friend.

 

[Chuck R.]

I've made the jump from 1911's to DA/SA (SIGs) several times, and kept going back to 1911's after coming to the conclusion I don't like the DA/SA transition. Having said that I just bought an HK P30L V3 (DA/SA) with the intent of "learning" the transition (again). At least with the P30L I can later convert it to a LEM once I realize (again) that the DA/SA isn't for me. Which is why I chose the P30L over a SIG 226 I was eyeing.

My issue wasn't getting good with it, it was the realization that it honestly wasn't worth the effort to me when there are other triggers available. It's one of those opportunity cost things; there's only so much time for practice, so if I spend time on DA to SA transition, what am I not getting to work on?

I did find it much easier to go from a 1911 to a striker fired pistol ( Walther PPQs, M&Ps and HK VP), due to the trigger being consistent. I now shoot strikers far more often than my 1911s, and carry a couple as well. So now I've got a couple Les Baers that spend time sitting in the safe.

If you want the SIG, then I'd say go for it, throw in a Laserlyte cartridge and learn the trigger. If you're like me it will end up staying in the safe most of the time, but who doesn't "need" another pistol. Just don't be one of "those guys" that gets a DA/SA and only practices SA after chambering a round. IMHO the DA/SA does require training/practice or either that 1st or 2nd rd is going somewhere else, or you'll be able to time your string with an hour glass.....

Chuck

 

[Sam1911]

Several thoughts:
1) Everything that ny32182 said.

...and to reiterate...

2) .357 Sig is GREAT ... eh... well, it's ok. Ahhh, actually, well, it's interesting. Well, it's ... ah, kind of a pain in the butt and hard to justify to yourself why you need this. If you're sold on the idea that FASTER and more powerful is something useful -- i.e. pushing the recoil and blast out of the sweet spot for fast and accurate handgunning that most folks do best with -- at least you can say the ammo is expensive and/or a frustrating reloading proposition that many users just get tired of and find little reason to play with after the 'honeymoon' is over.

2) Switching to DA/SA isn't hard, but it takes dedication and practice with your new system to be really good/smooth/fast with it. Swapping back and forth with your 1911s is going to keep you pretty average with both.

3) Sigs. Sheesh, spend some time with one before you commit to this. Sig guys love them. Everybody else...well... meh. They have a lot of characteristics that are the opposite of what anybody wants, EXCEPT when they're looking at a Sig, and then "oh, well that's how Sigs are and Sigs are SIGs and so are awesome!"

You sure may find a Sig lives in your safe (not holster) for a variety of reasons. Be SURE that's what you want to marry up to before you walk down the aisle.

 

[ny32182]

My issue wasn't getting good with it, it was the realization that it honestly wasn't worth the effort to me when there are other triggers available. It's one of those opportunity cost things; there's only so much time for practice, so if I spend time on DA to SA transition, what am I not getting to work on?

For my transition from striker to DA/SA, I spent lots of time dryfiring the DA since that is super easy to do. Just draw/pull, draw/pull, you don't even have to rack the slide. You are just stepping up a little weight from a stockish striker gun. For me it wasn't a big deal. I was reasonably competent with it right from the start.

In live fire, I spent ZERO dedicated time on exercises devoted entirely to the DA/SA transition. Since virtually everything I do involves a draw anyway, it was just baked right into everything I wanted to work on anyway. Today I barely even notice it is there.

Actually, right out of the gate (coming from a striker) I had more trouble with the single action pull than the double. Since 95% of the shots were suddenly breaking at a lighter pull weight than before, for the first three weeks or so I was breaking shots right before the sights were quite settled, and accuracy suffered a little as a result. And since the single action can't really be effectively dryfired, it just took a few thousand live rounds to get it sorted out.

Coming from a 1911 where at least one of the trigger pulls is somewhat similar, you should just have to spend some time dryfiring the DA.

 

[ATLDave]

Sigs. Sheesh, spend some time with one before you commit to this. Sig guys love them. Everybody else...well... meh. They have a lot of characteristics that are the opposite of what anybody wants, EXCEPT when they're looking at a Sig, and then "oh, well that's how Sigs are and Sigs are SIGs and so are awesome!"

I literally laughed aloud. That's eventually what I concluded. They're very well made guns. The question is why they are well made in precisely that way.

 

[JTQ]

Sam1911 wrote,
They have a lot of characteristics that are the opposite of what anybody wants, EXCEPT when they're looking at a Sig, and then "oh, well that's how Sigs are and Sigs are SIGs and so are awesome!"

I agree.

You'll often see folk bash the Beretta M9/92FS for it's "odd" down is safe and up is fire safety. As I mentioned above, I'm a 1911 guy, but the Beretta is such an odd configuration it's been in use since the Walther P38, through all the various generations of S&W TDA autos, Ruger's P-Series guns, and bunches of others that have been around for several decades. It is a fairly common configuration. You may not like it, but lots of makers have used that design. The SIG manual of arms is basically unique to SIG (OK, there are some Turk guns using it, but that's about it).

 

[Chuck R.]

For my transition from striker to DA/SA, I spent lots of time dryfiring the DA since that is super easy to do. Just draw/pull, draw/pull, you don't even have to rack the slide. You are just stepping up a little weight from a stockish striker gun. For me it wasn't a big deal. I was reasonably competent with it right from the start.

In live fire, I spent ZERO dedicated time on exercises devoted entirely to the DA/SA transition. Since virtually everything I do involves a draw anyway, it was just baked right into everything I wanted to work on anyway. Today I barely even notice it is there.

Actually, right out of the gate (coming from a striker) I had more trouble with the single action pull than the double. Since 95% of the shots were suddenly breaking at a lighter pull weight than before, for the first three weeks or so I was breaking shots right before the sights were quite settled, and accuracy suffered a little as a result. And since the single action can't really be effectively dryfired, it just took a few thousand live rounds to get it sorted out.

Coming from a 1911 where at least one of the trigger pulls is somewhat similar, you should just have to spend some time dryfiring the DA.

Your bolded was exactly my experience. Right now I've got a laserlyte cartridge in my new P30L driving my wife nuts dryfiring the DA around the house, but it doesn't help where I need the most work. Luckily I have a range out back, so I can pop off a few rounds every day or so to work on it.....

I think every body is a little different. I too had no issues with the DA pull, as I came from DA revolvers. What I didn't and don't like is the transition. I can do it, but if I time the same COF, shooting it with either a 1911, or a striker pistol, and a DA/SA, that's where I see the difference. Maybe my mind isn't wired right, but that 10lb, going to a 4lb annoys me.....

I'm slower, with the DA/SA. Speed up and my accuracy degrades. I have no doubt I could become proficient with it, but for me at least that "costs" something (few 1000 live rounds??, time I could have spent working on something else??), and I could just be that much more proficient with a consistent trigger. So I've come to the conclusion that in my case, the DA/SA trigger brings nothing to the table that makes it worth the effort. As for SIGs in general, I agree with "MEH". I went through a brief love affair with them and owned 4 at one time. The .357 SIG looks interesting, but I already have experience reloading for a .30 Luger, so sitting down reloading 4-500 little "rifle" rounds at a time isn't that appealing.

Chuck

 

[ny32182]

I guess I'd just be curious about where exactly you are losing time, exactly what you are doing specifically to work the DA/SA transition, and exactly what else you would be doing instead if you weren't doing that.

For me, I've never varied my practice because I'm shooting one kind of trigger or another. My goals are not changing based on the gun or trigger type.

 

[serpentine]

Great input here, thank you.

The short version is:

I shot the caliber a while back and loved it. Loved the snappiness and speed of the round, but haven't tried others such as .38 Super. It has always been in the back of my mind to pickup something in the caliber. Recently, that idea was rekindled and I am struggling with the departure from my beloved Colt. I am drawn to Sigs...but I don't know why. I always seem to take time to look and handle when I'm in the local shop. The marketing team for the Legion series definitely did their job well and has me very interested. I have a 3rd Gen Smith with DA/SA that has jammed me up in unofficial competitions (steel shoots at my local range) because of the heavy first pull. The Legion series, however, has a custom trigger setup.

Putting the additional expense for ammo aside, I think I know, that if I "must" have this caliber, the best option for me would be the M&P 357c. That gives me the ability to configure in such a way that it would not be much of a change from my 1911 (trigger and safety). I have shot an M&P with the Apex flat trigger, and it's great. I feel like the Sig will always be one of those things that I will stop and look at, until I scratch that itch.

The long version is:

The infatuation with the .357 Sig came on a "Glock Day" at my local club. I don't know the model name, but it was the mid-size variant in that caliber. I loved shooting it. I loved the sharp snappy recoil, and I was naturally coming back on target for followup shots. It is the only Glock that I have enjoyed shooting. So much so, I recall telling a buddy that I finally understand why so many people are in love with their Glocks. For me I think I simply like snappier "hotter" rounds. At the time I was turned off to ammo prices, so I decided against purchasing anything in the caliber. If I did, it would have been the S&W M&P 357c (before its discontinuation).

I haven't shot other hotter rounds like the 38 super, and I put the idea of a 357 Sig on the back burner until recently. I came across a 1911 build in .357 Sig...and then read a synopsis on the caliber from a former LEO who was instrumental on his department transitioning to the caliber. In that synopsis he said something along the lines of "...if I knew I were going into a gun fight, I would grab my 357 Sig over my 1911...".

So now the idea has sort of been reinforced in my head that I "need" this caliber. About the same time I stumbled across a review on the new Sig Legion series. And it simply looks awesome. For whatever reason, I am drawn to Sigs. I don't own any, but I always look and handle when in the shop.

Edit: Looks like the short version and long version are the same....ha

 

[Zaydok Allen]

First, I'd question the infatuation with 357sig, why you want, it, and if you REALLY do want it.

The same thing happened to me one time. I thought 357sig would be great. It is "unique", and the bottleneck rounds look cool! I went and bought a G32+magazines, some factory ammo, brass, dies, case gauge, powder, bullets... and then reality set in:

-Factory ammo is expensive
-It is more of a PITA to reload, and the brass is not super common... so either way, you are probably not going to shoot it as much.
-Recoil is excessive vs similar cartridges

Today I have a pile of 357sig stuff waiting on the right buyer to come along (and if that is you, PM me).

Second, switching platforms: It takes dedicated practice for any platform switch to be successful. No way around it.

The "difficulty" of becoming competent with a DA/SA trigger is overrated. It isn't that hard. Just takes some practice like anything else. Dryfire is your friend.

There are a lot of really good thoughts in this thread already, but the above quote is nicely worded.

Personally, I started out with DA/SA revolvers, that was all I shot for a few years, and I practiced shooting them in both modes. I think that experience lead to a lot of good trigger experience as my next step was going to DA/SA semi autos. It felt the same to me, except now I didn't have to manually cock the hammer.

Then I decided to get into a 1911, and suddenly I was hitting targets much easier at distance than when I started out with DA revolvers. I mean, I spent several thousand dollars becoming a competent revolver shooter, and I'd say that's still where I'm at. I'm certainly more competent than before, but I have a few decades, and many thousands upon thousands of rounds to shoot before I would be able to hold a candle to many of the shooters here on THR. But with a 1911 I simply started making a single hole through my target at 20 yards almost immediately.

My point is that I think it is much easier going from the DA/SA world, to then incorporating a SA only system, than the other way around. So be patient with yourself. I suspect you'll find it relatively easy once you get into it, and starting out with a gun that you really want will help.

I have recently added striker fired guns to my lineup and now I am really complicating things.

357 Sig..... If it does it for you, then go for it man. It doesn't always need to be practical or needed.

Good luck!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

2) Switching to DA/SA isn't hard, but it takes dedication and practice with your new system to be really good/smooth/fast with it. Swapping back and forth with your 1911s is going to keep you pretty average with both.

3) Sigs. Sheesh, spend some time with one before you commit to this. Sig guys love them. Everybody else...well... meh. They have a lot of characteristics that are the opposite of what anybody wants, EXCEPT when they're looking at a Sig, and then "oh, well that's how Sigs are and Sigs are SIGs and so are awesome!"

You sure may find a Sig lives in your safe (not holster) for a variety of reasons. Be SURE that's what you want to marry up to before you walk down the aisle.

On point two, this is very true! It's something I need to give serious thought to. I am probably spreading myself a little thin due to my love of variety and ever changing moods.

On point three, I think this can be said about a lot of guns. Beretta 92's are another example. If you like the setup, they are probably right up your alley. If not........ well then not. It's just preference.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Why switch platforms?

The Sig 1911 Fastback Carry Nightmare is available in 357sig (1911FCA-357-NMR).

Andy

 

[serpentine]

Why switch platforms?

The Sig 1911 Fastback Carry Nightmare is available in 357sig (1911FCA-357-NMR).

Andy

I'd prefer CCO size...but Sig's 1911 offerings just don't do it for me.

 

[shootniron]

3) Sigs. Sheesh, spend some time with one before you commit to this. Sig guys love them. Everybody else...well... meh. They have a lot of characteristics that are the opposite of what anybody wants, EXCEPT when they're looking at a Sig,

This is the best point made...in this thread.

 

[AK103K]

About 15 years ago, I went from 1911's to SIG's, specifically, the P220's. Soon after that, I became enamored with the 357SIG, and switched to P226's/P229's. Had a P239 in the caliber as well.

Switching to DA is only as hard as you want to make it. Its not a big deal if you jump right in and put a little time in. If you want to constantly try and compare it to something else, then it will probably take longer.

All but one of my SIGs were box stock standard models. The one that wasnt, a P245, simply had a factory DAO trigger installed. You dont have to get fancy with them, they work fine as they come.

The biggest downside to the SIG's is what they cost. That becomes even more of an issue if you have to have an exact spare of each.

I was paying around $700-750 for a stock gun with night sights. Mags were around $30-35.

I picked up a basically NIB Glock 31 for $350 at Gander Mountain. It was cheap because of the caliber. Boy at the counter made a snide comment "after" he wrote it up..."good luck getting ammo for it", like I got took. Didnt bother me, I got a great deal and I had a half dozen cases of factory and 2500 rounds or so in reloads sitting at home.

That 31 did two things, got me out of SIG's, and got me out of 357SIG. Made out like a bandit selling them both off too. Now Ive got a bunch of Glock 9mm's, and havent regretted the decision in the least.

The 31? It was taking a beating shooting 357SIG. Ended up putting a LWD 9mm barrel in it , and shooting more 9mm out of it than I did 357SIG.

 

[Chuck R.]

I guess I'd just be curious about where exactly you are losing time, exactly what you are doing specifically to work the DA/SA transition, and exactly what else you would be doing instead if you weren't doing that.

For me, I've never varied my practice because I'm shooting one kind of trigger or another. My goals are not changing based on the gun or trigger type.

ny32182,

Basically a a lot more double taps/controlled pairs out of a holster. Issue probably wouldn't be as bad IF I'd go to DA/SA and stay that way. Just last night I was working press-outs with the P30L to shrink my 1st shot times.

I don't think it's an issue for guys that stay DA/SA, and practice with it. For me at least it is, as long as I shoot other triggers. I do not have this problem sticking between SA and striker fired guns.

YMMV,

Chuck

 

[Ohen Cepel]

If you want a thumping auto round without the .357SIG issues look at a 10mm. Glock makes a great one and there are many 1911's in it also.

For me the .357SIG was just never worth the expense and reloading challenges (due to the bottleneck).

Keep us posted what you do please.

 

[GoldieMI]

Being a 1911 guy

Sig Fastback Nightmare 1911 in 357SIG
5" Full size...9 rounds of 357SIG
One of my favorites