Charging and Seating .38 Special

[Cokeman]

I am about to charge cases and seat bullets and want to do everything correctly. I have CCI 500 small pistol primers, Berry’s FP 125 gr plated bullets, and HP-38 powder. My Nosler reloading manual doesn’t show load data for this exact combination, so I am using the data off the Hodgdon site. I plan to charge 50 cases to 3.8 grains. I will seat the bullets in until the overall length of the entire cartridge is 1.445”. Does all of this look ok? Is there anything I need to know or watch out for? Is there other load data that is better? Here is the Hodgdon load data.

 

[Demi-human]

That sounds good!

Be sure to set the bullets as straight as you can when you seat them.
Seat them to the crimp cannelure so the roll crimp can go there. It may not be exactly the published over all length.

What would “better” load data be?

The better load data will come when you know if those you just made work well in your pistol.

 

[243winxb]

The starting load, 3.8 is the safe place to start. Increase the powder charge 3/10 grs at a time to test accuracy with 5 cartridges. If you want to? No need to go to maxinum, if you dont want too.

Ball powder and starting loads may do better with an increase in powder? A cleaner burn?

I would load 5 rounds as a test at 4.1 grs. If no pressure signs with the starting load of 3.8 grs.

 

[magyars4]

Looks good to me....(38 years reloading experience here)

 

[Ru4real]

The absolute most critical step is charge all 50 cases and have them together standing upright in your loading block so you can see down into every single case with good lighting above. Eyeball powder in all 50 cases at the same time. Each powder level should look about the same.

Walk away, get a coffee or something. Come back and eyeball powder levels again. When satisfied, seat all 50 bullets without leaving your bench, will take about 10 min.

A double charged case, 7.6gr of HP-38 sitting among 49 cases with 3.8gr will stand out like a sore thumb. A singe case by itself with 7.6gr is next to impossible to ID unless you loaded thousands of rounds.

If you don’t seat a bullet properly, it may not chamber, not a big deal. If you put a primer in backwards, the round won’t fire, not a big deal. If you double charge a case, you will unzip the cylinder on your revolver and bend the frame, maybe lose a finger or an eye, a big deal.

You are using reputable loading information. Thank you for asking, very smart!

 

[lordpaxman]

Is there anything I need to know or watch out for? Is there other load data that is better? Here is the Hodgdon load data.

You’re taking the right steps using published data that’s very close to your actual bullet. I don’t think the Berry’s bullet has a cannelure so make sure you have enough neck tension to prevent the bullet from moving. Proper resizing and just enough bell so the plated bullet can be seated. A touch of roll or taper crimp to remove the bell and you should be fine. It’s good to start at the start charge but in my experience when using lead data for plated I needed to up the charge to be in line with the lead velocity data. Looking forward to the range repot. Good luck!

 

[Bill M.]

No cannelure on that bullet so you need to do a taper crimp. Great bullet that I like shooting a lot. I load mine in .357 cases though.

 

[MEHavey]

Berry’s FP 125 gr plated bullets

With plated/no crimp groove, use your sizer die to taper/crimp the mouth back to .379" (true straightwall)
So easy.... a cave man......

 

[mdi]

When I'm talking to a newer reloader I suggest a tried and true load and plated bullets don't fit that standard. I experimented/tried about 1,000 plated bullets in a few different calibers and have found no advantage, no use for them. If your plated bullets have a cannalure, go ahead. But if they don't, what's your plan for crimping? Some say taper crimping, but I had plated bullets walk with "normal" mid level 38 Special loads taper crimped. Roll crimp? I had some cut the plating with a roll crimp. I'd suggest searching for some more traditional 38 bullets before adding "unknowns" to a new reloaders learning process...

FWIW; my cast bullets shoot very accurately and cleanly (very little, no leading), and for a SD or hunting load, jacketed bullets are way superior. Cost may enter the situation, but I enjoy reloading and shooting and a bullet that costs $.01-$.02 more won't break me...

You asked for opinions...

 

[Herman B]

A minimum charge often results in incomplete combustion, leaving unburnt powder and soot behind. Not saying avoid minimum charge but avoid loading a bunch (50!) until you know they are performing well. Load 10 each at min and then +.3 up to 4.6 or so. There's no imperative to even try a max charge until your comfy/confident all is well with the prior/lower level charge.

 

[.38 Special]

I am sort of glad that I learned handloading before the internet.

OP: you should be fine. OAL is not critical with revolvers. You want about three quarters of the bullet shank inside the case. Then just set the crimp die to remove the flare. That will almost certainly be adequate. If you find that the bullets seem a bit loose in the case (try forcing them further into the case by giving them a bit of a push against the loading bench or something) then report back and folks will give you good solutions. You probably won't need to worry about it, though.

My experience with plated bullets has been fine. They are clean to handle and shoot, and easy to work with. I generally prefer cast, but plated often gets the nod for indoor work, as the air handling system at one of our local ranges doesn't do the job. For that place, I'm happy to spend a little extra for plated.

HP38 is a clean burning powder which doesn't need a lot of energy to light. I have extensive experience with a load similar to the OP's and never have had an issue with unburned powder or soot. Shoot enough without cleaning and you'll start to get a bit of copper wash on the outside of the gun (it takes about 700 rounds, in my experience) but even that wipes right off.

Short version - the OP's load is perfectly safe and sensible. He is to be commended for his cautious approach, and hopefully not buried under an avalanche of minutiae.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

You’ll be fine with that combination. I use my Lee seat/crimp die to do the taper crimp with plated instead of a roll crimp (they have 2 crimp shoulders, taper and roll). If they look like they are going to move, I reset my crimp die to do an ever so slight roll crimp. Getting the feel for crimping plated comes with practice.

 

[Pat Riot]

The Berry’s bullets have a thin copper plating and it’s malleable for crimping. I use a Lee factory crimp but I have lightly roll crimped those bullets.

 

[bluetopper]

If your bullets have a cannelure seat them to there. It's what it's made for, regardless of bullet grain or caliber. 38 Special is a low pressure caliber anyway. you will be fine.

 

[Riomouse911]

I am sort of glad that I learned handloading before the internet.

OP: you should be fine. OAL is not critical with revolvers. You want about three quarters of the bullet shank inside the case. Then just set the crimp die to remove the flare. That will almost certainly be adequate. If you find that the bullets seem a bit loose in the case (try forcing them further into the case by giving them a bit of a push against the loading bunch or something) report back and folks will give you good solutions. You probably won't need to worry about it, though.

My experience with plated bullets has been fine. They are clean to handle and shoot, and easy to work with. I generally prefer cast, but plated often gets the nod for indoor work, as the air handling system at one of our local ranges doesn't do the job. For that place, I'm happy to spend a little extra for plated.

HP38 is a clean burning powder which doesn't need a lot of energy to light. I have extensive experience with a load similar to the OP's and never have had an issue with unburned powder or soot. Shoot enough without cleaning and you'll start to get a bit of copper wash on the outside of the gun (it takes about 700 rounds, in my experience) but even that wipes right off.

Short version - the OP's load is perfectly safe and sensible. He is to be commended for his cautious approach, and hopefully not buried under an avalanche of minutiae.

Amen!

The HP-38 load chosen is at the bottom of the scale, some guns like the lower power loads, some don’t. Some guns like the 125 gr bullet, some don’t. If your gun doesn’t like a lower-end 125 gr load, the 4.1 gr suggestion is a good one to bump the speed a bit and see if it shoots better in your gun.

Since plated bullets from Berry’s and Rainier really took off in the early 2000’s I’ve loaded thousands of plated .38 Spl. up through .45 Colt loads for revolvers and rifles, using a touch of roll crimp with zero plating cuts or issues. Go slow, don’t mash the handle and you’ll be fine.

If you caveman the crimp I have read that the plating can be cut and the rear part of the plating could theoretically be left in the bore. This isn’t anything I have experienced myself or been told first-hand by anyone in my personal gun circles. Jackets from bullets with thick copper jackets can get stuck, because they’re harder and much thicker than thin plating it can happen much more easily. In fact, you will probably bulge the case below the case mouth and make it tough to chamber before any other issues pop up due to too much roll crimp on a plated bullet.

You are on the right path by starting safe and slow, good luck and happy shooting.

Stay safe.

 

[Walkalong]

Some Powerbond 125 gr plated bullets in .38 Spl.
If it's a light plinker, you barely need any crimp, far less than these.


Like this light taper crimp on a 148 Gr HBWC

 

[Walkalong]

Found it, a light taper crimp on a Berrys 125 gr TrFP in .357 brass.

 

[.38 Special]

It seems to me that when Walkalong decides to post we can take his information to the bank. The OP should make his rounds look like the ones in the above picture. He will then have no troubles.

In particular, the slight bulge where the base of the bullet sits in the case should be noted. This is indicative of proper tension, which often happens on its own but sometimes requires that the expander ball be turned down slightly. This is easily accomplished by chucking the ball into a drill press and pinching it with crocus cloth. A dial caliper will let you know when you have removed a few thousandths - it doesn't take much! - and you will then have perfectly adjusted cases which do not require significant crimp to hold bullets firmly in place.

 

[Cokeman]

Thanks for all the replies. This is my first time doing this and I don’t want to mess up. My bullets don’t have a cannelure so I will try the resizing die to taper crimp. My crimp die is a roll crimp. I flared the cases so the bottom of the bullet just fits in maybe an 1/8”. Does that sound right? If they seat tightly and don’t move, do I still want to crimp? I guess I would always want to crimp to remove any flare. Also, is 3.8 grains where I want to start? Some replies make me think I should go a bit higher, maybe 4.0 to 4.1? My revolver is a 686 with a three inch barrel of that matters.

 

[TTv2]

You’ll be fine with that combination. I use my Lee seat/crimp die to do the taper crimp with plated instead of a roll crimp (they have 2 crimp shoulders, taper and roll). If they look like they are going to move, I reset my crimp die to do an ever so slight roll crimp. Getting the feel for crimping plated comes with practice.

Yup, and I've only just begun myself. Would sure be nice if Berry's would give us a damn cannalure or groove to crimp on as they only have three bullets with a groove or cannalure, the rest are smooth sides. Smooth bullets are fine for rimless autoloading calibers, but not the revolver calibers.

 

[kelbro]

Looks good from here. That pistol should be a good load development platform.

My Dan Wesson preferred around the middle of that range of powder charge with the same bullet.

I would load 10 @ 3.8, 10 @ 4.0, 10 @ 4.2, 10 @ 4.4, and 10 @ 4.6 and see what works best.

I'm not a 'max charge' handloader.

 

[lordpaxman]

Thanks for all the replies. This is my first time doing this and I don’t want to mess up. My bullets don’t have a cannelure so I will try the resizing die to taper crimp. My crimp die is a roll crimp. I flared the cases so the bottom of the bullet just fits in maybe an 1/8”. Does that sound right? If they seat tightly and don’t move, do I still want to crimp? I guess I would always want to crimp to remove any flare. Also, is 3.8 grains where I want to start? Some replies make me think I should go a bit higher, maybe 4.0 to 4.1? My revolver is a 686 with a three inch barrel of that matters.

Your amount of flare sounds fine. If you’ve got good neck tension after seating the bullet, the crimp would just be to remove the flare if necessary. You could always seat the bullet, and then chamber the rounds (safely) to see if they chamber in your 686. If they don’t chamber, you can still use your roll crimp die ever so slightly until they chamber. There’s no need to purchase another taper crimp die.
I would load 6 at 3.8 and see how they do. Let them tell you if you want or need to go higher. Some of us have the luxury of shooting out our back door. If you have to travel to shoot, then load 6 at 3.8, 6 at 4.0 and 6 at 4.2. You can skip the .1gr increments, I never could distinguish .1 gr increments in my 686. It’s an L frame, it’ll handle these .38 loads just fine. Good luck!

 

[Average Joe]

I always start above the min load, somewhere around 4.0 would be my starting load.

 

[Bill M.]

"I experimented/tried about 1,000 plated bullets in a few different calibers and have found no advantage, no use for them."

Well, I do have a use for them. I can load light recoiling loads with little chance of sticking a bullet and I can load for about half the cost of loading jacketed bullets.

I am not doing everything on a shoestring. I added a Redding competition seater and a Redding taper crimp die and my 125 grain Berrys shoot pretty well. I get no bullet pull while shooting. Yes, I get a little better accuracy in my gun with heavy loads behind plated bullets but not a lot better. I am not an accurate shooter anyway so all this talk about laddering in 1/2 grain steps and ransom rests at 25 yards is just lost on me.

My take for the OP would be to get right in the middle of the suggested data range and load some up. I see no real need to be at either the minimum nor the maximum for my use. Accuracy will be as well as you can hold the gun. I load HP 38 but not behind the 125 plated. For what I do load it for the midrange seem to work fine.

I keep my primed cases upside down in the loading block. I remove a case, charge it, look into the case to see the charge, and drop a bullet upside down into the case and the set it in the loading block. When I have them all charged I put in the seating die, pick up the case and bullet, look into the case again to check the powder, and seat the bullet. I hope I do not make a mistake and that this procedure is good enough to prevent a double charge. Most of the time I just load Trail Boss behind the plated and coated bullets since that gets me into the velocity range I want and it seems to be accurate enough for my ability.

 

[Cokeman]

I think I did ok. I was surprised at how much empty space was left in the case between the powder and the bullet. I haven’t crimped these yet but I think they look good. I tried twisting the bullets and they are in there right. No movement or spinning at all. They drop in to my revolver’s chambers with no hesitation.