Charles Daly, EAA/Baikal, or Kahn Semi-Auto?

[DougB]

A friend of mine is looking for an economical semi-auto 12 Ga. for informal clay target shooting, etc. He's considering the Charles Daly, EAA/Baikal, and some Turkish Khan "Centurian" shotguns imported by Century Arms. These start at around $250 and go up to the mid $300s. I think that's quite a bit less than he'd have to pay for a Remington or Winchester semi-auto.

Any opinions on these guns - and/or advice on selecting between these similarly priced option? Any others he should consider?

Thanks.

Doug

 

[45auto]

Another option might be to look for a good used Remington or Winchester.

I can't say about the Winchesters, but I have seen 1100's in the mid 300 range if I recall.

It does take more time and effort to find good used ones though!

 

[Dave McCracken]

Used 1100s go for about $300 around here, and sometimes an X-1 for not much more. These are Forever Guns, and will outlast about anything but an 870.

Get one of those...

 

[JA]

The Baikal MP-153 has become a good seller here. One of the local gun shops even lists Baikal in there TV ad. A list flashes on the screen Remington,Winchester,Browning,and Baikal as the announcer says "we are a authorized dealer in....." Even Mack's Praire Wings which is the Cabelas/Bass Pro Shop of duck hunting mentions Baikal in their TV ad.
The duck hunters here are really buying up the MP-153's and now that EAA is importing it with a sythenic stock sales have jumped.
One co-worker used one all last year for ducks/geese and it preformed flawlessly.
When his hunting buddies $1100 Bennelli SBE's froze up sitting next to him in the duck blind the MP-153 kept on going. He used it all last season and has hunted doves and teal so far this year. It didn't even need the gas system adjusted to function with the light dove loads. It is a hell of a 3-1/2" 12ga semi auto retailing for $369 with your choice of real walnut or synthetic stocks.

 

[Grayrock]

I second the Baikal. I have the IZH-27 O/U and love it. It has worked flawlessly for me for over 2 years now. I look forward to many more years out of it. Baikal= strong, like bull.

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

I know from experience the khan is a worthless POS. I dont know if you can find a quality semi auto in that range. If you dont want something that is going to jam all of the time I would go with a mossberg 500 pump action that can be bought nib for around $225

 

[Frog48]

I've heard nothing but good things about the Baikal. It is also being imported now by Remington, and known as the Remington "Spartan" SPR-453.

I've been tempted to buy a Charles Daly, but I've heard that reliability can be very suspect. Some people have no problems at all, where others have tons of problems. Seems to be a 50/50 split.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Someone needs to turn off Eric's wayback machine.

 

[Hawk]

I didn't know about the SPR-453 until this thread came along. While easy for us olde folks to conjecture why big green would import SxSs and O/Us, it is less clear why they would import a competitor to the 1100 and 11-87.

My contemporaries used to refer to such tactics as "urinating in the soup".

<sigh>
Live and learn, I guess.

So, I take it the SPR-453 has garnered an overall favorable rep?

 

[ArmedBear]

Remington is going through some serious catalog changes. I think they're experimenting with their product line.

From what I can tell, they've dumped all the nice 11-87s, and only kept the junk Sportsman models and the camo cannons. The 11-87 is no longer available in a model that isn't overweight.

The replacement for the 11-87 Premier is the REALLY nice 1100 G3, which has a lot of top-notch features like nickel-teflon coatings, titanium nitride finish, a fancy high-tech laminate stock that still retains the appearance of fancy walnut, etc. Shoots 2 3/4" to 3", too. It's expensive, though. Worth it, I'm sure, but still not cheap. I really like their new 105CTi, but good luck finding one, and they're expensive if you do. It's a 7 lb. 12 Gauge with minimal recoil, that ejects to the bottom and automatically closes on the first round like an old Browning, and swings like a dream. Hit the first clay I tried with the thing, dead center.

So, the Baikal doesn't compete with much of their future line, from what I can tell. It, too, is way too heavy. Wouldn't touch it. Wouldn't touch a Khan, don't know much about the Daly, other than I prefer guns for which parts are readily available.

If you really want a cheap autoloader, CZ's Turkish gun seems all right.

But a used Remchesteretta would likely be a far better choice. My $250 1100 works great. You just have to be willing to replace a part or two someday, but since there are so damned many of them, parts can be found on eBay. I bought a literal baggie of unused spare parts -- nearly everything in the gun -- for $40.

Beretta 3901 is a nice semiauto for a (somewhat) good price. Also, Davidson's has a sale on 11-87 Premiers.

 

[MCgunner]

Much thinking about getting a Charles Daly, I passed. I've heard opinions of 'em talking about reliability problems. I have an older Winchester M1400 that's 100 percent, just wanted something with a 3" chamber. The Winchester is a fantastic SA 12 gauge gun, though, and I've seen used ones in the $225-$250 range. I only gave $255 for it new in the late 80s. It's a keeper and has slain more'n a few doves over the years. I shoot it at the range when our club puts on a country doubles shoot now and then, too. I have a Mossberg pump for waterfowl (3" chamber).

The only thing with the Winchester, it doesn't like those cheap promotional loads from Wallyworld. Decent power 1 1/8 ounce and up it functions fine. Those cheap 1 ounce loads don't have enough pop to reliably work the action. Big bonus, you won't find a softer shooting 12 gauge, recoil on par with a 20 gauge gun. Love that thing!

I've been thinking about looking for a used Remington 11/87 at up coming gun shows for a SA waterfowl gun, 3" chambered and the gas operation would take the sting out of the heavy loads. I've written off getting the Charles Daly even though I'd probably be paying less for a new gun. I just don't think I trust getting one after all the negative comments I've heard about 'em. Don't have any personal experience to go on, though.

 

[Smitty in CT]

Have him look at a Mossberg 930, they have been getting great reviews, I got one at the end of last year for just over $400, out the door with fees and taxes.

And another thing the are "MADE IN THE USA", none of the other new guns being listed are...

Smitty

 

[ArmedBear]

I shoot with a guy who has a 930. It's been a great gun. I like the way it handles, too, and Mossberg will fix it if there is any problem. Like Smitty said, Made in USA, with customer service in the USA, too.

The only problem I've heard about is that they are made out of Unobtainium. Maybe they're easier to find now. If you can find one, it's a great choice!