Cheap red dot not bright enough outdoors. Need recommendations.

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rpenmanparker

rpenmanparker

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During my recent handgun-self defense training course in the Nevada desert my Sightmark Mini Pro Spec red dot optic failed me. Couldn’t see the dot. A battery change didn’t help but the battery was of uncertain age. The dot simply wasn’t bright enough for me to see it on the days which were sunny especially when the early morning sun was in my face. Of course the terrain resembles a beach more than anything else. I know my dark sunglasses contributed to the problem, but that is expected and has to be able to be overcome by the red dot brightness.

Okay, so live and learn. Some folks online say they could solve similar problems with a fresh battery, not just a new one, but a fresh one. Well, I don’t want to have to depend on woulda, coulda, shoulda. I am prepared to spend some bucks to get an optic that won’t fail me in bright sun just now more than necessary. I also have some Burris Fastfire 3s that cost about twice as much as the Sightmark, but don’t even know if they work in that environment. And right now I am nowhere close to there to test them out.

Folks at the training school said the Trijicon RMR or something from Leupold would fix me up, but closing in on my 50th wedding anniversary, I am not looking for a divorce. Those things are pricey. If that is the only sure thing, okay, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. But I’m hoping you guys will have some insights for me regarding more economical alternatives that would work. Is the Burris good enough? What about something from Docter? JPoint? How about the Vortex Venom? Other? Cost effectiveness in an open reflex sight is the goal.

One other thing. I’ve seen and heard that green dots work better in bright sun than red ones. Is the difference significant? Should I buy green or a sight with both options?

Your suggestions based on personal experience will be appreciated.
 
I have two Burris Fast Fire IIIs. These are good dots with four brightness settings.
If you have one of those you should try it.
 
rpenmanparker said:
Do you wear dark glasses when you use the Fastfires outdoors?
Click to expand...

I don't wear dark glasses when shooting. The darkest I've worn is amber Remington safety glasses and the dot was visible just fine. You might have to use the brightest setting.
By the way mine are the 3 MOA dots, not the 8 MOA. The 8 MOA might be a better option for a handgun in bright sunlight.
 
Only red dot I have problems with outdoors in bright sunlight are the very first two $30 BSA's I bought from Walmart maybe 20yrs ago. One of my favorites for rifle use is the Vortex Strikefire with the option of a red or green dot. Green does work better in bright sunlight and is what I usually use. Also like the PA and Bushnell mini's, Aimpoint PRO, UltraDot and MatchDot. I have the little Vortex and PA reflex sights and just don't particularly care for that type. For you I'd recommend the Bushnell or PA mini tube type.

http://www.primaryarms.com/bushnell-trophy-trs25-1x25mm-red-dot-sight-3-moa-bs731303

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-micro-dot-with-removable-base-md-rb-ad
 
So being a chemist I have embarked on a range of experiments to get some perspective on my problem. I have two Sightmark Mini Pro Specs, two Burris Fastfire 3s and two Bushnell TRS 25s. I just compared one of each outside my house including the Sightmark that failed me in Nevada. The TRS 25 was bright enough on a pale beige surface in direct sunlight st the 9 setting (of 11). The Fastfire was okay on its auto brightness setting. The Sightmark was not bright enough even on its highest setting. I will repeat the test when some fresh batteries I ordered arrive tomorrow or Monday. I will also test all the other ones ai have. If the Sightmark is still not bright enough, I may just swap it for Fastfire and call it a day. Or I may check out some higher end units at my LGS to see what price level needs to be accessed to imrove on the Fastifre. I am not proposing to use a TRS 25 on the self-defense gun as I like an open model for that purpose. I reserve the closed tube type for target pistols. Stay tuned.
 
Latest developments are that the new batteries made no difference, and I have ordered a Vortex Venom to try. Yes it is still under $300 on the street, but a little more than the Burris Fastfire 3. We shall see how it is.
 
Add me as another on the list of, "Have a Burris Fasfire III, it's good". I have one both on my Five-Seven and an AR-F3. No problems during the day during a bright Texas summer. Just guessing, by maybe polarized sunglasses might be an issue vs tinted lenses.
 
ClickClickD'oh said:
Add me as another on the list of, "Have a Burris Fasfire III, it's good". I have one both on my Five-Seven and an AR-F3. No problems during the day during a bright Texas summer. Just guessing, by maybe polarized sunglasses might be an issue vs tinted lenses.
Click to expand...
I have two.
 
CraigC said:
What is it going on? It makes a difference. Why do people post threads like this with so little information???

I have one on my XD .460R. It seems okay but I'd prefer a tube.

View attachment 788754
Click to expand...
What difference does it make? My thread starter post said a handgun training course. How does the make and model matter? Turns out it was a Ruger SR1911, 9mm Commander.
 
It makes all the difference in the world and it helps YOU get a better answer! The method by which it's attached determines the type of red dot that may be used. Recoil level is also a significant factor. As is the intended purpose. If you are limited to the Fastfire, mini-reflex type like my XD above, then we need to know that. No point in discussing sights that aren't applicable.
 
CraigC said:
It makes all the difference in the world and it helps YOU get a better answer! The method by which it's attached determines the type of red dot that may be used. Recoil level is also a significant factor. As is the intended purpose. If you are limited to the Fastfire, mini-reflex type like my XD above, then we need to know that. No point in discussing sights that aren't applicable.
Click to expand...
Sure, but actually a very wide range of sights designed for pistols are applicable. Burris, Docter, JPoint, Sightmark all use the same mounting plates as do some others. Many other mounting plates are available for other sights and many guns. And third party providers are offering mounting solutions. A little searching uncovers a whole host of mounting options for a great many sights.
 
Personal experience with early type, rather dim red dots showed me that a filter to darken the image will work wonders. Place the filter in front of the objective side of the sight (the side away from your eyes). Early Aimpoint brand sights included polarizing filters to up the contrast. A neutral density bit of grey clear plastic, or something of a color contrasting with the dot (a green sunglass lens for example) would also work.

I'm looking at the problem as a matter of contrast between the dot and the target image, to be solved by darkening the target image in cases where the dot cannot be made brighter.
 
Kendal Black said:
Personal experience with early type, rather dim red dots showed me that a filter to darken the image will work wonders. Place the filter in front of the objective side of the sight (the side away from your eyes). Early Aimpoint brand sights included polarizing filters to up the contrast. A neutral density bit of grey clear plastic, or something of a color contrasting with the dot (a green sunglass lens for example) would also work.

I'm looking at the problem as a matter of contrast between the dot and the target image, to be solved by darkening the target image in cases where the dot cannot be made brighter.
Click to expand...
Thanks. That is a good idea. Likewise sunglasses make the problem worse because they reduce the brightness of both the target and the dot thereby reducing the contrast. Keeping the brightness of the dot while toning down the target would help. Good thinking.

Unfortunately the Sightmark optic also develops a glare spot when in direct sunlight. The glare spot is easily confused with the dot. I will consign the Sightmarks to guns ainonky use indoors. They are fine in that application.
 
rpenmanparker said:
Sure, but actually a very wide range of sights designed for pistols are applicable. Burris, Docter, JPoint, Sightmark all use the same mounting plates as do some others. Many other mounting plates are available for other sights and many guns. And third party providers are offering mounting solutions. A little searching uncovers a whole host of mounting options for a great many sights.
Click to expand...
Point missed.
 
No, you still don’t get it. The point is that ther is no point in us discussing UltraDots and micro tube style red dots id you’re limited to min reflex types. Which is the case here. Plarform is critical because I’m going to suggest something completely different for a heavy recoiling revolver than I am for a Ruger MKIV or a 1911. In some cases there is some overlap but jn your case there is none.
 
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