Checked with my driver re:UPS refusing to ship firearms

[FlSwampRat]

He said he hasn't heard anything, no chatter, water cooler gossip, nada. Also stated that when UPS stopped shipping vape products, they also got no warning so take his first statement with a grain of salt. A big grain.

That said, we shipped firearms and ammo yesterday with no issue.

Brownell's is still selling guns and ammo on their webpage with no warning I could see about which shippers they would use for any transactions.

 

[CapnMac]

It's almost like somebody wanted to see what IP and email addresses would blaze up like bonfires over an otherwise slow, long weekend, with "the horse's mouths" safely in the stables and unavailable.

A way to stir up an divide a common community with otherwise shared values is to create as divisel and inflammatroy isue to divide them amongst themselves.

 

[tark]

^^^^^^^ Well said.

 

[The Glockodile]

A way to stir up an divide a common community with otherwise shared values is to create as divisel and inflammatroy isue to divide them amongst themselves.

You have given me such wonderful new ideas

 

[CapnMac]

such wonderful new ideas

Well, not that I would suggest applying such measures to persons opposed to one's own views.
That would be wrong.
Especially if such people were easily divided based on their rants and ravings . . .

 

[The Glockodile]

That would be wrong.

It just feels sooo good to be sooo bad

 

[Frank Ettin]

And I still doubt that the letter is authentic.

1. The letterhead in the copy I've seen posted on-line could easily be created by anyone on any one of a bunch of word processing programs.
   
   
2. In my experience, a major business terminating a contract (an account is a contractual relationship) for what amounts to cause, especially with a commercial client, would write a more focused and formal letter. Typically the provisions of the account (contract) supporting the unilateral termination for cause would be cited or at least referred to.
   
   
3. UPS' "threat" to seize parcels shipped by the terminated shipper and destroy them doesn't pass the smell test. I'd need some convincing to believe that there is any legal way for a common carrier to, on its own initiative and without further notice, decide that something shipped is contraband and seize that property, which belongs to another, and destroy it.
   
   
4. UPS has been in the common carried business for a very long time and is certainly a major player, but the letter is really very amateurish.

True the foregoing aren't conclusive, and there's always the possibility that the letter is genuine. But the foregoing concerns, especially when taken together, seem to require some good evidence of authenticity before taking the letter seriously.

 

[hso]

No account number on official communication usually means it isn't official communication. Any business dealing with an account holder will use that unique identifier.

 

[chicharrones]

https://www.wikihow.com/Start-a-Rumor

 

[herrwalther]

Only thing I remember seeing of this is UPS was no longer shipping packages from Brownell's. I saw a post on their Facebook about it but cannot find it anymore. It appears to have been taken down from there.

 

[arsterling180]

I think we’re two for two in the last couple of weeks of people running game on us. Lake City and m855 and now this.

 

[wbm]

Well ever who said "A lie can make it half way around the world before the truth can get its' shoes on" was probably right.

 

[chicharrones]

Brownell's is still selling guns and ammo on their webpage with no warning I could see about which shippers they would use for any transactions.

Brownells still has UPS mentioned repeatedly across the webpage linked below. Not sure if there is lag time between shipping options and this webpage updating, or shipping options aren't going to change at this point in time.
https://www.brownells.com/aspx/general/shipping.aspx

 

[BushMaster-15]

No matter UPS ,has gone by the way of USPS, SLOWER than Snail poop . Where is the State of Michigan , Outer Mongolia ?.
#11 days and COUNTING for a simple delivery . Hello ,Idaho isn't that far ! ; should have ordered from Montana

 

[N555]

Only thing I remember seeing of this is UPS was no longer shipping packages from Brownell's. I saw a post on their Facebook about it but cannot find it anymore. It appears to have been taken down from there.

You weren't dreaming I saw it too and it appears to have been deleted now.

 

[wbm]

Hope this all turns out to be untrue.

 

[Valkman]

I have a shotgun being delivered today to my FFL by UPS. They picked it up 6/30. It's taken forever with the holiday but I guess they are still moving firearms.

 

[N555]

We have gone about 5 days longer than it should have taken for UPS or Brownells to come out and say it was a hoax or that its fake news or a whaling attack.

UPS doesn't car about firearms going to dealers. They think a bunch of people are making "illegal ghost guns", when it's not illegal in about 48 or 49 states to make your own gun.

Gun grabbers always planned to cut off our guns at the source. Their plan is irrelevant when everyone is making their own.
In other countries gun grabbers are trying to banning technical drawings, instructions for guns.

https://sifa.net.au/wa-proposes-new-firearm-laws-that-will-have-major-unintended-consequences/

Technology is on the cusp of rendering gun control obsolete and the authoritarian enthusiasts can't stand the thought of that.

 

[RA40]

That "UPS" letter seemed suspicious as noted above. The bad part is that one letter people took and ran with it as being authentic from UPS. A customer service rep that initiated the letter would have signed their name as well. It was the ONLY sample seen online so some person had an agenda.

 

[rust collector]

So you are saying the burden was on UPS or a client to acknowledge or deny an apparent hoax? Has there been any confirmation, with signatures, account numbers or citation of any laws allowing common carriers to seize or destroy goods entrusted to them for shipping without prior notice or involvement of authorities?

 

[Frank Ettin]

I’m not surprised that UPS hasn’t commented. A denial by the subject of a malicious rumor can sometimes simple extend the life of the rumor.

 

[bdickens]

This whole thing should be activating the BS meter of anyone who possess critical thinking skills.

Why isn't the letter addressed to a specific person at Ghost Firearms? Professional business correspondence is usually addressed to the specific individual at the company responsible for this particularfunction.

UPS is going to cancel an account because the customer might do something? That just doesn't pass the smell test.

If there is an account, I'm sure there is an account number. Why isn't it referenced?

By whose authority are they going to be seizing and destroying property that doesn't belong to them? Nobody's that's who's. First off, here in the real world outside of paranoid Fantasyland that would be known as theft. Secondly, and the legal experts here can correct me on this if I'm wrong, that would be tampering with evidence. And that is a crime in itself. Yeah that's right: if you suspect that a crime has been committed and you destroy the evidence thereof, that itself is a crime.

Why isn't this letter signed by a specific person at this supposed "Customer Compliance Department?" Again, professional business correspondence is usually signed by a specific person. Hell, just the name "Customer Compliance Department" sounds bogus.

 

[bdickens]

Not to mention that any multi-billion dollar, multinational corporation like UPS is certainly going to have their legal department thoroughly scrutinize any such decision prior to implementing it to ensure that they are in compliance with the law and that they won't loose a lawsuit for breach of contract.

 

[Old Dog]

Shucks, I raised the BS flag in post #2 in the first thread on this topic, yet some members still wanted to believe... Same thing happened to me on two other forums, where everyone still has their hair on fire about Brownell's and everyone else not being able to ship via FedEx or UPS.

We, the greater community of gun-owners and RKBA advocates, are often our own worst enemies. So ready to assume the worst.

My LGS owner told me today that he's still expecting to get complete firearms and parts via UPS, seemed surprised when I mentioned the internet hoopla...

 

[alsaqr]

We have uninformed people on gun boards claiming UPS is destroying shipments and doing all kinds of horrible stuff.

Yep, UPS refuses to ship unfinished receivers that lack serial numbers.

• Prohibited Firearms Shipments

"UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment, either domestically or internationally.

UPS does not accept firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts for shipment internationally.

UPS does not accept firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts for shipment domestically unless (1) such shipments are in full compliance with all federal, state, and local laws, including, without limitation, age restrictions; (2) such firearms, including any partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver (as defined by 27 CFR § 478.12) have been identified and bear a serial number in a manner that complies with federal law; and (3) such firearm parts within a package cannot be assembled to form a firearm.

Any item that meets the definition of a firearm (including firearm mufflers or silencers) or a “frame” or “receiver” under federal law (including any partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver as defined by 27 CFR § 478.12) must be identified and bear a serial number in satisfaction of the requirements for identifying such items under federal law, including 27 CFR § 478.92 and/or 27 CFR § 479.102, regardless of whether any such items are otherwise exempt from or not subject to identification requirements under applicable law. This prohibition applies even before the effective date of 27 CFR § 478.12."

How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States