Checked with my driver re:UPS refusing to ship firearms

[Frank Ettin]

An open lettter with a hollow threat from senators to shipping companies. Now Brownells no longer using UPS.
I'm sure it's just coincidence.....
Real or fake, it's having the desired effects.
I think UPS would notice if Brownells suddenly stop using them and one or the other would attempt to clear up any misunderstanding.
We are at least a full week out and only Brownells has clearly stated their intentions.
I guess if UPS stays quiet there's just enough wiggle room to say it was a hoax or mistske once the board notices a sharp drop in sales and starts looking for someone to fire.

Rationalization, fantasy, guesswork, meaningless blather — the bottom line is that absolutely nothing you’re referring to is evidence.

• We do not know why Brownells did what it did.
  
  
• Brownells has no obligation to “clear up any misunderstanding”, as if there’s some sort of misunderstanding that Brownells might need to clear up.
  
  
• Exactly what intentions does Brownells need to state?
  
  
• Brownells is free to run its business as it sees fit

The fact that we don’t know something doesn’t mean your guesses are true. To paraphrase Ron Reagan, the problem isn’t so much ignorance as it is knowing so much that’s not true.

 

[N555]

Rationalization, fantasy, guesswork, meaningless blather — the bottom line is that absolutely nothing you’re referring to is evidence.

• We do not know why Brownells did what it did.
  
  
• Brownells has no obligation to “clear up any misunderstanding”, as if there’s some sort of misunderstanding that Brownells might need to clear up.
  
  
• Exactly what intentions does Brownells need to state?
  
  
• Brownells is free to run its business as it sees fit

The fact that we don’t know something doesn’t mean your guesses are true. To paraphrase Ron Reagan, the problem isn’t so much ignorance as it is knowing so much that’s not true.

Some people call that denial.

 

[hso]

Some people call that denial.

The rest of us call it logic.

 

[N555]

The rest of us call it logic.

So then clearly explain it.
An open letter from some useless is threatening shippers.
UPS supposedly threatens Brownells.
Then Brownell parts company with UPS.
And we're supposed to believe it's all coincidence.
Is UPS a site sponsor?
There's a lot of simping for UPS from the mods.

 

[Frank Ettin]

So then clearly explain it.
An open letter from some useless is threatening shippers.
UPS supposedly threatens Brownells.
Then Brownell parts company with UPS.
And we're supposed to believe it's all coincidence.
Is UPS a site sponsor?
There's a lot of simping for UPS from the mods.

Logic is a process by which one can examine data and draw conclusions from that data. But logic is still just a process. The validity of conclusions drawn from logic is dependent upon (1) the process being used properly; AND (2) the accuracy of the data. No logical process will yield valid conclusions if it has been applied to faulty data.

You have no valid data. You are just guessing and displaying monstrous confirmation bias:

... Confirmation bias is the idea that we tend to accept information unquestionably when it reinforces some predisposition we have or some existing belief or attitude....

 

[alsaqr]

i give up.

i'm back: This is still up on Brownells UPS website:

'One-Rate Program
We'll ship anywhere in the lower 48 states for just $15.95. Choose from UPS Ground, FedEx Ground, or Priority Mail. Add as many items as you need to your order-it's still just $15.95! These rates do not apply to Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, where packages can only be shipped Parcel Post Air or UPS 2nd Day Air."

 

[bdickens]

So then clearly explain it.
An open letter from some useless is threatening shippers.
UPS supposedly threatens Brownells.
Then Brownell parts company with UPS.
And we're supposed to believe it's all coincidence.
Is UPS a site sponsor?
There's a lot of simping for UPS from the mods.

I clearly explained it in post #21. Others have as well.

 

[hso]

An open letter from some useless is threatening shippers.
UPS supposedly threatens Brownells.
Then Brownell parts company with UPS.
And we're supposed to believe it's all coincidence.

No, you're supposed to believe that all the actual evidence points to it as fake. The letter from UPS is fake (no account number, no contact information for department that sent it, no actual department at UPS) while coincidentally having 5 Senators make an information request of ALL carriers and rail shippers is purely meaningless grand standing with a little intimidation tossed in since they can't actually do anything, "supposedly"? nope, Brownell's has NOT parted with UPS (see above). Beating a broken drum doesn't make any of the false information correct and the only coincidence is that some gun owners are being played by a clever hoaxster.

As to company sponsors, they're very transparent here and UPS isn't one.

Now making an accusation of "simping for UPS"...

 

[bdickens]

Some of you people could do wonders for maintaining your cardiac health if you would just step back and take a deep breath, put your emotions on hold for a second and look at this stuff in the light of cold reason.

 

[lernerk392]

1. I can’t believe presumably a grown man just used the word simp.

2. Not sure why some people are assuming that this fake letter is the work of anti-gun people. Really seems like the opposite to me. Just an observation/opinion.

 

[N555]

Logic is a process by which one can examine data and draw conclusions from that data. But logic is still just a process. The validity of conclusions drawn from logic is dependent upon (1) the process being used properly; AND (2) the accuracy of the data. No logical process will yield valid conclusions if it has been applied to faulty data.

You have no valid data. You are just guessing and displaying monstrous confirmation bias:

​

That works for me.
Thank you for proving my point with all that clear logic.

 

[Frank Ettin]

That works for me.
Thank you for proving my point with all that clear logic.

Thank you for proving my point. If you think I proved your point, you didn't understand what I wrote.

 

[N555]

1. I can’t believe presumably a grown man just used the word simp.

2. Not sure why some people are assuming that this fake letter is the work of anti-gun people. Really seems like the opposite to me. Just an observation/opinion.

I would say that was a possibility a week ago.
This is where we are if we follow the "clear logic":
Brownells fell for a hoax and UPS hasn't noticed that Brownells suddenly stopped using them, also no one's talking to each other. Clearly at least the UPS drivers are aware of this rumor/hoax and none of them has bothered to run it up the chain, because they all forgot to?
Got it. Totally plausible. Yeah.

 

[lernerk392]

I would say that was a possibility a week ago.
This is where we are if we follow the "clear logic":
Brownells fell for a hoax and UPS hasn't noticed that Brownells suddenly stopped using them, also no one's talking to each other. Clearly at least the UPS drivers are aware of this rumor/hoax and none of them has bothered to run it up the chain, because they all forgot to?
Got it. Totally plausible. Yeah.

Not sure I completely understand you, but I would add that I wouldn’t expect UPS to notice (nor care) that one distributor stopped using them. They likely aren’t paying that much attention to a single business. That would be like me expecting McDonald’s to notice/care that I stopped eating there

 

[bdickens]

I would say that was a possibility a week ago.
This is where we are if we follow the "clear logic":
Brownells fell for a hoax and UPS hasn't noticed that Brownells suddenly stopped using them, also no one's talking to each other. Clearly at least the UPS drivers are aware of this rumor/hoax and none of them has bothered to run it up the chain, because they all forgot to?
Got it. Totally plausible. Yeah.

Letter addressed anonymously to no one in particular at a company that doesn't exist threatening to commit multiple crimes and cancel an account that doesn't have an account number for something that this nonexistent company hasn't done yet and signed anonymously from a department that doesn't exist.

Got it. Totally plausible. Yeah.

 

[N555]

Let's say "UPS didn't notice brownells stopped using them".
A 3 second internet search shows Brownells did 138 million in sales in 2021. Let's say 100 million of that was on line.
Let's say the average order is $500, which its probably not. That's 200,000 packages per year. I think they use fedex, ups and usps, but I don't recall ever getting a brownells package from USPS, but we will say it was split even thirds. That's 66,000 packages.
I think ups would notice.
So not only are they losing that much revenue, their competition is getting that much more.
Yeah that's not how you run a successful business.

 

[lernerk392]

Let's say "UPS didn't notice brownells stopped using them".
A 3 second internet search shows Brownells did 138 million in sales in 2021. Let's say 100 million of that was on line.
Let's say the average order is $500, which its probably not. That's 200,000 packages per year. I think they use fedex, ups and usps, but I don't recall ever getting a brownells package from USPS, but we will say it was split even thirds. That's 66,000 packages.
I think ups would notice.
So not only are they losing that much revenue, their competition is getting that much more.
Yeah that's not how you run a successful business.

There are SO many more business that generate the same amount of revenue x 100 for UPS. You may underestimating how big and lucrative UPS is and perhaps overestimating Brownells’ contribution. No shade to Brownells at all.

Also, if a company stops using UPS, UPS isn’t going to turn around and beg them to come back. In the business world, when business relationships are terminated (especially by small to midsized businesses), the business with the upper hand (UPS) probably won’t trip about it.

Lastly, I know I’m jumping around here but, it is possible that Brownells saw the letter and cut ties. Would that qualify as “falling for a hoax”? Maybe. Would I be overly surprised? Not really. Again, not a slight to Brownells. Just an online discussion, nothing more.

 

[CapnMac]

Brownells fell for a hoax and UPS hasn't noticed that Brownells suddenly stopped using them

This may not be a true statement.
The facebook post, which was retracted near immediately, was the only one indicating a Brownell's response to this.

Plenty of evidence that Brownell's still offers UPS shipping as an option (despite a couple dozen YT videos to the contrary).

Sure looks like some goniff decided to prank the system just before a long holiday weekend, and likely we will never know if it was a lark, or a deliberate political act, but a prank none the less.

It certainly "worked" in that it divided the "gun community" amongst itself. And, it derailed all of the good news about the SCOTUS success in a rather deliberate sort of way. While also creating a lot of "cover" for the shenaningans of 5 or 6 different States to ram through anti-gun legislation.

 

[alsaqr]

Deleted.

Another one onto the ignore list.

 

[nettlle]

My tracking says my new rifle to be delivered via UPS tomorrow to my local FFL. Why all this drama?

 

[dogtown tom]

In this thread we find out those members who don't know how shipping contracts are negotiated.

Example: Bud's, one of the largest shippers of handguns in the country traditionally has used UPS for their handgun shipping. Every few years they switch to FedEx for a few months. Thats called a reminder to their UPS account rep what can happen if Bud's chooses to switch. Magically, after a couple of months Bud's is back shipping via UPS again.
Its a game.

 

[Old Dog]

My tracking says my new rifle to be delivered via UPS tomorrow to my local FFL.

My stuff'll be here, on my doorstep, on the 13th (sometimes it get here a day earlier).

 

[Robert]

This thread is incredibly dumb and makes my head hurt. Some of y'all need to go outside more...