Chinese firearms

[Slater]

Norinco/Interstate Arms/etc. has exported a bunch of guns our way. From AK-47's and SKS's to clones of the M1911A1, M14, and various shotguns. On any Internet discussion of Chinese guns you'll usually get the following opinions (I'm obviously generalizing here):

"Damn Chinese Commies ain't gonna get one cent from me. The Hell with their crap, and no one else should buy them either".

"Damn good guns at a reasonable price. I've got a bunch of them"

"Well, I'm not crazy about China, but I'm on a budget and I wanted/needed a new shotgun that wasn't expensive. They fit the bill."

"Who cares? They're cheap and everywhere."

"I wish you guys would buy American first. Chicom QC sucks"

...And eveything else in between. My own experience is limited to a Chinese AK-47, one of the Ithaca M37 knockoffs, and a Type 53 carbine. They go "bang" every time the trigger is pulled and appear reasonably well made (though I sold the AK some years ago).

From what I can tell, the M1911A1 version was generally liked and seems to be made of some of the hardest steel ever encountered on a handgun. The M14 clones appear to have had some metallurgy issues, but some seem to like them anyway. The shotguns seem OK for the most part (started out with issues but seem to be getting better), and the Cowboy Action crowd uses the heck out of the Winchester M97 clones.

As I said, my admittedly limited experience has been positive with regards to overall reliability/fit & finish. Others have had decidedly different experiences. Any thoughts pro/con?

 

[Cosmoline]

You *ARE* supporting the Chinese military when you buy those firearms and Norinco products, whether you want to admit it or not. I buy a lot of surplus firearms, but I draw the line when it comes to buying from active dictatorships--esp. ones we may end up fighting. It's not like buying shoes from some subcontractor. When you buy arms from China, your money is going to the devil's pocket directly. It's like buying your ammo from Mugabe. Bad karma.

 

[longhorngunman]

The Free market is exactly that, do whatever it is that YOU want to. BTW as much money as their getting from us, I feel better knowing that we are getting by and large some very good firearms in trade. Actually with the import ban there isn't much Chinese stuff to buy.

 

[Edmond]

Even though I'm Chinese, there ain't no way I'm buyin' a Chinese gun.

 

[Moonclip]

People getting worked up about Chinese guns is a bit silly. If used models like all the 1911's and Aks would be, you are in no way helping the Chicoms get another cent.

Even if new, think about this. If China uses the money to build nukes and actually used one against us, you know we would wipe them off the face of the earth and so do they. As for the Chinese invading the US, unlikely and I guess more than a few Norinco firearms would be turned agaist them! As for the US invading China one day, very unlikely we could do so and take over and succede. Is'nt there like 1 billion Chinese in China? Anyone remember the Our Gang where the kid thought his next sibling was going to be Chinese as he read in a book that every 5th child in the world is Chinese?

And I know every one here has bough something Chinese here and there, just can't be avoided really even if ones tries to.

 

[Manedwolf]

You *ARE* supporting the Chinese military when you buy those firearms and Norinco products, whether you want to admit it or not. I buy a lot of surplus firearms, but I draw the line when it comes to buying from active dictatorships--esp. ones we may end up fighting. It's not like buying shoes from some subcontractor. When you buy arms from China, your money is going to the devil's pocket directly. It's like buying your ammo from Mugabe. Bad karma.

What I tell people who tell me that they're thinking of buying Norinco is to go find video on the web of a Chinese student/dissident/etc being beaten and dragged off by the Red Army or communist party police.

Then see if they still want to buy it.

 

[losangeles]

Regarding not buying from a country we could be at war with in the future:

Hey, wait a minute! Won't it be an advantage to be fully acquainted with the tools, ways, methods --- AND WEAPONS --- of your enemy?

Just a thought!

 

[IndianaDean]

I'm with Cosmoline and Mannedwolf, but then again, there is a plethora of good 1911 companies to choose from, so I won't ever have to buy a Norinco.

 

[Onmilo]

China and Walmart can pi** off IMHO.

 

[chopinbloc]

i think the question is moot. we can't buy weapons FROM china any longer, so who cares? the few norinco and polytech weapons that can still be found have great reputations. i consider the norinco sks to be the best there is, especially for the money.

 

[merk]

A gunsmith friend of mine told me that parts used in Norinco arms are of pretty bad quality. I dont have any first hand experience with them though.

 

[Gun_nut]

the only thing i bought chinese was my sks and thats even pushing the evelope for me but...it was cheap..

 

[thatguy]

My theory is that we can undermine Chinese communism by doing business with them and slowly indoctrinating them into capitalism. Seems to be working. I heard a news story yesterday that there are protests now taking place in China by workers demanding more economic and social freedom. Seems they are getting a taste of free-market life and want more.

I knew it was only a matter of time for the Coms in China when I heard the first Wal-Mart had opened there. Capitialism will take over anywhere it's introduced.

As for Chinese guns I have had 2 SKSs and liked them fine. Also have one of those JW15 Mauser clones in .22 and it's a nice rifle.

 

[Maxwell]

I dont fancy the thought of buying from a communist nation BUT theres something to be said for enhancing our trade with them. Anyone whos selling you stuff, and making good money, thinks twice about turning you into their enemy.
This dosnt mean they will like us, just that they wont shoot at us until it becomes otherwise unavoidable. Simply because they would lose too much money.

Its a free market and you can do what you want with your money.
The only shame here is that American companies cant be the ones producing cheap weapons for sale at home, instead of importing from the Chinese.

 

[CentralTexas]

Since NORINCO is banned from importing new weapons (guess who?)they aren't making money off sales.

Buying a used Norinco weapon profits the Chinese in what way????


Colts were used in the US Civil War to kill Americans, how many of you have bought Colt's?

Colt spits on "civilians" when it comes to sales, yet seen the prices people pay on Gunbroker for a new AR-15 with a pony engraved on it lately?


This isn't quite the same as buying weapons made by the Taliban folks......

CT

 

[Harve Curry]

The only shame here is that American companies cant be the ones producing cheap weapons for sale at home, instead of importing from the Chinese.

Affordable or inexpensive might be a better descriptive word then cheap, but I agree with Maxwell.
Marlin is doing it.
Winchester/USRA has trouble and shouldn't.
S&W had a excellent top break. If they had made considerations to todays market we'd still have an American made top break.:banghead:

A few months ago we get word that our US military is ordering Norinco AK47's with ammo to arm the new Iraqi police. After we destroyed over thousands of sevicable captured weapons. Norinco, as I understand it, was the only company that could fulfill this large an order on short notice. Our US tax dollars are probably paying for this to.

I believe that with todays manufacturing technologies the US could be making alot more of our own famous design firearms and support ourselves.

 

[Manedwolf]

Regarding not buying from a country we could be at war with in the future:

Hey, wait a minute! Won't it be an advantage to be fully acquainted with the tools, ways, methods --- AND WEAPONS --- of your enemy?

Just a thought!

But they don't design their own. They knock off other people's designs in blatant copying. They make knockoff 1911s, ripoffs of Rem 870's, copies of Tokarevs...

And I work for a company whose products have already been illegally copied by a Chinese company and sold there, but the respect for international patent law is crap there and nothing can be enforced.

 

[Drysdale]

I'm with Cosmoline and Mannedwolf, but then again, there is a plethora of good 1911 companies to choose from, so I won't ever have to buy a Norinco.

Springfield GI... $399... Nuff said!

 

[Slater]

Ther current imports (mainly clones of the Rem 870, Ithaca 37, and Winchester 97 shotguns, but a few others) are under names such as Interstate Arms, Hawk Industries, etc. since Norinco is under a temporary ban. Wouldn't be surprised if these companies are just offshoots of Norinco.

 

[ball3006]

My Chinese SKS rifles.....

are the most accurate SKSs I have. and......Chinese babes are hot.........Lucy Liu comes to mind........chris3

 

[MD_Willington]

Chinese guns made from recycled American steel...

 

[Moonclip]

All the China haters, can you honestly say you have not biught anything Chinese in the last year or something that was made with some Chinese parts? And a good point mentioned, we are intrducing them more and more to our system.

China is becoming commie in name only, a businessman is now allowed to be in the Communist party! Do you guys hate Marlin too for exaple for bringing in that Pardner pump which is just an overpriced 870 clone with the Marlin name made in China.

 

[notupperwareplease]

Personally, I try to buy domestic products whenever I can.

My thoughts--If you can buy it stateside, then do it (support our economy), regardless of the foreign country's political affiliations (unless they are fanatical like some ME countries)... but if you can pay drastically less and/or get a much better product (Japanese cars if you are talking MPG), then go for it. Capitalism at its finest there.

And I think the post about buying used Chinese guns was referring to Chinese military surplus sold internationally...in which case the Chinese military gets the profits...

But if a Norinco is already over here and someone bought it...buying it used off Gunbroker or something won't do anything but put some dough in another American's pocket.

 

[Car Knocker]

Springfield GI... $399... Nuff said!

Bad choice - it's made in Brazil and imported by Springfield.

 

[Logan5]

Aside from the geopolitics of the issue, Norinco has made some nice products and some stinkers. They are quite proficient in knocking off former Warsaw pact smallarms, since they've been doing it forever, so you can expect a Norinco SKS or Type 56 (or whatever they're calling an AK over there nowadays) to be a serviceable example.
I had a 56-S underfolder fifteen years ago that was a great deal for $500.
For a while I had a Norinco M14 clone, and it was solidly mediocre, nothing wrong but I never really came to love it.
Then there was my really low serial number Norinco 97... The only thing keeping all the small parts doing their job was apparently fear of the party leadership, and once out of the country, most of them promptly jumped ship and went to ground on American soil. There's still a reward being offered for my ejector assembly.