Chinese Shotguns--any good?

[Fish Springs]

Here's one possibly worth reading:

Does the inexpensive availability of Win 1897, Rem 870, Ithaca 37, or 1911 over-ride the intellectual property and labor problems associated with the purchase of these firearms?

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=67714

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Any intellectual property rights associated with the 1911 or the 1897 Winchester expired before I was born ... and that was quite some while back.

The real question is why Americans would be willing to support a government that wants to bury the U.S. I wouldn't buy a new Nork for that reason (not that we can), but buying a used one doesn't send any money to China, so why not?

 

[Manedwolf]

Here's one possibly worth reading:

Does the inexpensive availability of Win 1897, Rem 870, Ithaca 37, or 1911 over-ride the intellectual property and labor problems associated with the purchase of these firearms?

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=67714

Keep in mind that any money you give to Norinco, IF they started selling new ones here again, goes to the Red Army...it is a state industry.

Watch some videos of students and dissidents being pummeled and dragged off, and then see if you still wanna buy one.

 

[Biker]

I'm curious. Seein's how just about everything for sale at Wally World is made in China, are we supporting the Red Army by spending American dollars there?
Incidentally, I avoid the place whenever possible.
Biker

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm curious. Seein's how just about everything for sale at Wally World is made in China, are we supporting the Red Army by spending American dollars there?
Incidentally, I avoid the place whenever possible.
Biker

Not in the same way as when you buy Norinco. Norinco IS the Red Army. Every dollar goes directly towards killing protesters in China.

I'm a free-trader, but I won't buy Norinco. It's morally wrong.

WRT Wal Mart, I buy US-made stuff there all the time. Depends on what you buy. I see no reason to pay some other national chain store 25 cents more apiece for my post-workout Zone Bars just because the lefties hate Wal-Mart.

Chinese-made goods are your choice. It depends on which side of the "constuctive engagement" argument you believe. Entrepeneurship in China could bring freedom there, or it could empower their government. I don't know. A lot of Chinese-made stuff is made by business people, just like here, though, not the Red Army.

 

[STiTkacik]

Very interesting. I never knew that Norinco = Red Army...

 

[ArmedBear]

http://www.nisat.org/database_info/country_industry.asp?Key=41

 

[mbt2001]

Very interesting. I never knew that Norinco = Red Army...

It is. Look up the Pakistani Army. Most of their equipment is imported stuff, obviously, the interesting thing is that they have NORINCO tanks, personnel carriers, et cetera. India has American equipment. It looks to me like China took over the old Soviet past time of arming folks and we tend to arm the enemies of those folks. All in all, I wonder if we don't have another Cold War brewing or on the go with China.

 

[ArmedBear]

What's disturbing is that, if you follow the link I posted above, you'll read that Israel has helped the Chinese with updating their military technology, which is otherwise based on 1950s Soviet stuff.

It's hard to tell who your friends are. Furthermore, some who are subjectively friends might objectively support our enemies.

 

[sm]

There is hardly anything some man cannot make cheaper and sell for less; those whom buy based on price alone are this man's prey. - John Ruskin

 

[calzoom]

I guess I'm the odd one

I have a Norinco (870) clone that is a very good piece and does a fine job. Had it several years now.

I wasn't aware that NORINCO was/IS the RED ARMY!!!

Before I throw this peice away or destroy it, I would ask Y'all to check under your belt, in your shoes, in your car. In your Gym. Under the hood of your car, in your, (China Closet)!

Methinks it's a bit late for the denegration of those who supply us with so much of what we seek. Over on the kids forums they have a saying......."Your owned"

Sorry!

 

[ArmedBear]

A lot of business in China is run by entrepeneurs. Also, Hong Kong is part of China now. Yes, they are taxed.

But money going to a business in China is not the same as that money going straight to support their military.

You decide where to draw the line.

 

[Slater]

Their shotguns (especially the Winchester 97 clones) seem to be selling briskly, so SOMEONE'S buying them. I've admittedly got one of the Ithaca 37 copies. Reason? It cost $150 and that's all my budget could withstand at the time.

 

[Meplat]

I'm curious. Seein's how just about everything for sale at Wally World is made in China, are we supporting the Red Army by spending American dollars there?

Since everything in China is under government control, I'd have to answer that one "yes". Not only that, but when we spend our money in there (whatever happened to WM's "Buy Amercia" ads?) we are supporting a company which has worked out one sweet deal with the Chinese government.
The minimum wage (yes, the do have one) in China is 31 cents per hour. Under WM's agreement, they only have to pay workers 13 cents per hour. Many of these are women or children who have no IDEA what a forty hour week is, and who are housed in barracks that resemble nothing better than what we would consider an ill-kempt chicken coop here. Isn't it nice when the government "persuades" its people to see everything ITS way? Another aside, Wal-Mart is now the largest importer of Chinese goods in America today.

Incidentally, I avoid the place whenever possible.
Biker

You and I both.

 

[Delivery McGee]

Their shotguns (especially the Winchester 97 clones) seem to be selling briskly, so SOMEONE'S buying them. I've admittedly got one of the Ithaca 37 copies. Reason? It cost $150 and that's all my budget could withstand at the time.

How's that Ithaca knockoff working for you? There's one at my local shop (used, on consignment; I wouldn't buy one new) for about that. Exactly what model is yours? "Mine" says "UltraCell x12" on the side, but I'm pretty sure that's the importer's rebranding.

I'd like an 870 or Mossberg (the Ithaca design doesn't take a mag extension), but there aren't any nearby, and I want one now, before I accidentally spend my tax refund on something else.

 

[ribbonstone]

Yes...but an hour later, you want to shoot them again.

The ones I've looked at and seen being used seemd like very good guns for the money (politics aside) but the wood often seems a bit soft (know that's not a real technical term, but it is descriptive) and in some examples, poorly finished.

The '97 clones end to cracks/breaks at the wrist...but so do some older Winchesteres...the design of the stock kind of promotes that unless careful about the grain pattern of the wood and the quaility of the stock.

 

[Logan5]

I have a Norinco '97 in the low 400's serial number range, and that was a mistake. Luckily, it was a cheap mistake, but it still isn't fixed. Politics aside, eventually they shook down into solid guns, but beware of low serial numbered guns; they are problematic.

 

[Slater]

Mine works fine. It has no markings other than the serial number and "MADE IN CHINA", and was advertised as an "M37". This particular model has the 19 inch barrel, Parked finish, heat shield, sling swivels, and Ghost Ring sights.

 

[Waldo1]

It's hard to tell who your friends are. Furthermore, some who are subjectively friends might objectively support our enemies.

I don't remember who originally said it, but the quote goes something like, "Nation-States do not have 'friends'- they have 'interests'".

Waldo1

 

[mrmeval]

If you don't let them play at capitalism they won't have an incentive to be capitalists.

I'm curious. Seein's how just about everything for sale at Wally World is made in China, are we supporting the Red Army by spending American dollars there?
Incidentally, I avoid the place whenever possible.
Biker

 

[XPLSV]

World Commerce

As a military member, I've come across various clothing in the exchanges on our posts and bases which has originated in China, Russia and Vietnam. While America espouses free market economics and everyone is out to make a buck, we shouldn't forget the final Cold War collapse of the USSR was an economic collapse brought on with their inferior system to keep pace with us in the Arms Race. Not sure what's going to happen with China, but they've been steadily doubling their expenditure on military items for many years now...