Chuck Hawks rips Tikka a new one

[gunsnmoses]

Tikka varmint in 223, bipod off bench, 5 rounds, with a nice flyer from pure human error. And I am NOT a good rifle shooter...


Yes, it has the plastic trigger guard...so don't drop it on concrete or run it over with your truck.

Maybe Chuck will come over and post the groups he gets with his 40 year old forged wood stocked rifles? Or send them to me for testing?

 

[atblis]

Yep

The same is said about a lot of what Remington makes, and rightly so IMO.

Own no Remingtons, have none on my wishlist. Trying to buy older Tikkas/Sakos/Steyrs currently.

 

[Fumbler]

I used to have a lot of respect for Hawks.
But that article was one of the biggest pieces of gun snobbery ever put out by an "expert."

So what if it's plastic? The nicer version of a Tikka is a Sako priced twice as much.
Every Tikka I've seen is built to much better tolerances than any 700.

The T3 is a good representation of a moderately priced rifle with the performance of a high dollar rifle.

Saying...

Then there is the Tikka 1" 100-yard test. I have yet to see, or even read about, a T3 hunting rifle that will consistently meet Tikka's 3-shots into 1" at 100 yards accuracy claim.

...is rediculous. Every T3 owner knows it's true.
At least we T3 owners don't have to go around bragging about how our 700s shoot 1MOA with handloads.

Here's what my T3 Lite in 308 Win does with a bipod and 168gr Black Hills BTHP at 100 yards.

Federal 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips do even better, I just don't have a pic.

 

[biggameballs]

Tikka rifles are JUNK! Cheap ass sh*tball rifles! Buy a winchester model 70 or a browning A Bolt.

 

[Zak Smith]

The Tikka T3 is a good deal and I don't think you'll find many better rifles for $550 these days.

 

[Richard.Howe]

My brother-in-law's T3 Lite just will not group any factory ammo larger than about 1-1/4".

What a crappy rifle. At least it should have a brand of ammo that it dislikes. It's predictable accuracy is just too boring.



I told him that it's a good thing I didn't shoot the gun before giving it to him, or I'd likely have kept it for myself.

Tikka's are what they are. They aren't pre-'64 Supergrades or Blasers or Merkels. They're just a good, weather-resistant, sub-$600, straight-shooting rifle. If you want something more, buy something else.

 

[mr.trooper]

Tikkas are awesome rifles. The fact that they are trying to save money in a competitive market is nothing to bemoan.

The action on the Tikka is smoother and stronger than most other rifles on the market, and they have excellent barrels. While the stocks are synthetic, they are far from "flimsy". Its not like they flex or bend under recoil.

He DOES know you can buy Tikkas with nice wooden stocks right? Old Geezer needs to lighten up and stop imposing his PREFERENCES on his readers, and stop speaking about his own OPINIONS as if they were fact.

 

[SWMAN]

Hard to believe Hawks has a site where people pay him to listen to his opinions.

 

[cpttango30]

After visiting the local gun stores lately I have come to the conclusion that Remington is putting out junk anymore. I have a 700VLS that came with a pot metal trigger guard the fit and finish were not that great but was good. It is nothing on the fit of many of my fathers older ugler rifles. That new Remington SPS is junk the stock is a discrase to the Remington name.

I do not agree 100% with him but I am there 98%. Many people out there either want the cheapest thing they can get or the most expensive rifle out there and the most expensive scope on it.

Like the guy I see with a Weatherby I think either a 300 or a 340 wthby mag Then he went and bought some goofy looking 8.5-25x50mm scope for it.

We as americans are the cause of this we have all made the sacrafice of quality for teh price. Look at AR rifles plastic and cast aluminum yet we will pay $1800 for them. I am not knocking any ar rifle but really where is all the cost comming from? We are willing to stop buying at the local mom and pop gun stores and buy from the mega box stores because we can get what ever we want and not have to wait for it at all. Do not get me wrong as the last 2 firearms I purchased i got from a mega box store. They have piss poor customer service there is new person behind the gun counter every time I go in the store. The bad thing about the mega box stores is they order in large quanties that something has to give for the manufactures to get the orders filled as fast as they can.

Do not expect custom gun quality from a factory made gun.

 

[skinewmexico]

This thread is 18 months old now, can't it just die?

 

[Fumbler]

Tikka rifles are JUNK! Cheap ass sh*tball rifles! Buy a winchester model 70 or a browning A Bolt.

My T3 shoots better than my girlfriend's brother's A-Bolt Grade III. The T3 also has a nicer trigger when they're both adjusted down.

Not bashing the A-bolt, but my $500 (bought 4 years ago) T3 can do what his $1100 A-Bolt can do, but better.

I like this quote:

To add insult to injury, the Tikka T3 is a cheap rifle, but not an inexpensive one. These things cost as much or more than some higher quality, better designed, and better turned-out hunting rifles.

What's higher quality than a T3 and costs the same or less?
The Rem 700 ADL?
Push feed M70s?
Savages?
I really doubt he can name any examples of better built guns for the price.

T3s have plastic trigger guards and mags. So what? Ever heard of one breaking?
Heck, look at the Remington 700 extractor. It's a POS piece of bent spring steel that's riveted in place. It works just like the plastic on a T3 works, yet he doesn't talk trash about it.

He needs a reality check.

It's a free market. Gun makers produce what we will buy.
I wanted a high performance no frills rifle and got the best of them.
If I wanted a good looking well made rifle then I would have gotten an A-Bolt.
If I wanted a somewhat good looking rifle with poor machining, cheap parts, and crappy performance then I would have picked one of those 700s that he speaks so highly of.

 

[vmfrantz]

Instead of ripping everyone, he should've told us the rifles that meet his criteria. And for his info I wouldnt even look at a rifle better built but
shoots only 2" moa.

 

[stevereno1]

Tikka's are fine rifles, but I don't like the way they kind of cover up the top of the bolt. I don't like that "ejection hole". Good shooters though.

 

[Bob R]

Who is Chuck Hawks? And why should I care what he says?

I guess I am out of the loop on gun writers, I gave up on gun mags years ago. I prefer to get recommendations from people who have bought and shoot the guns I am interested in.

bob

 

[Feanaro]

Oh yeah, and the good old days saw a lot of junk. Many rifles we haven't ever heard of rust away in barns and basements as we speak.

We remember the few good ones, and forget that the Winchester Model 70 was a premium rifle back then, not the rifle everybody took into the field.

Yep. With with the exception of two shotguns and a Krag, all the "old" firearms in my family are cheap. Cheap copies of S&W pistols, cheap rifles, cheap single shots, and even a cheap single shot with a faux wood stock... that's really plastic. This seems to match up with most everyone else I know.

 

[Art Eatman]

I remember when holding a half a thousandth of an inch was precision machining. That's back before "pre-'64 Model 70s" were considered superduperomigods and generally held around one to one-point-five MOA.

Bo Clerke told me he holds one ten-thousandth of an inch on his barrels.

Odds are, the average Tikka will shoot equally as well if not better than the "Rifleman's rifle". So it's not gonna take field combat abuse in time of war. So what?

 

[IronCurtain]

I have to chime in here.

Chuck Hawks is dead on.

I was shopping for a centerfire and liked the Tikka T3 from what I read. After checking them out, talking to some people and finding out more about the rifle I decided NOT to buy it.

Sure, its a good shooter, however I did not like the cheap feel, plastic parts, and long action receiver. I DO NOT want plastic on my hunting rifle. For me that was a deal breaker.

Now, call me an elitist, rich bastard becasue I don't want cheap plastic on a hunting rifle, in fact I'm a dirt poor. I paying my own way through school, I live off kraft dinner, potatoes and whatever I catch or kill but I appreciate good craftmanship with everything I buy and will gladly pay for it.

I left the shop with a used Marlin 336 in 30-30 becasue that was all I could afford at the time. This little lever gun is bare bones, no frills, but its built like a hunting rifle should be. It's not nearly as accurate as the Tikka but I can drop in down a hill, drag it through dirt, kick it and have no worries about something breaking. Snap to take apart and clean. I used it for almost 2 years until I saved up enough for my dream gun, a CZ 550 fullstock rifle in .308 which I paid almost $1000 for.

Chuck Hawks brings up a very valid point. I'm not arguing that the Tikka's are not good shooters, from everything I've read they certainly are, however they are cheaply built which Hawks rightfully points out.

In 50 years when the plastic mags are lost or broken, the plastic trigger guards have snapped off and the plastic stocks are cracking on the Tikka T3's that old Marlin 336 I bought for $250 bucks will still be the same as it is today.

This might offend some people who buy cheap guns, 2 for 1 burgers, lease cheap cars, buy Made in China Walmart coffee makers and toasters and look for deals above all else. The perfect consumers, buy everything cheap and ultimatly disposable.

Some people however still value good craftmanship. I for one will contiune using my old old Marlin, cherish by CZ 550 and drive my used Japansese car with over 200k miles on it.

When I want something new I'll will save up enough money for a well built product instead of supporting companies and products that have inferior build quality. If that makes me a 'snob' so be it. Maybe if more people did this we'd all be getting a better product instead of the junk out there today.

 

[Horsemany]

Iron curtain

I couldn't agree more. Ignorance is bliss they say. If you have never owned, held, or shot a quality piece you wouldn't know what you're missing. I think the younger generation is so far removed from the time when guns were basically hand built (1950's) that they don't know what they're missing. There is something solid and right about holding a gun that even the tiniest parts are machined out of bar stock. The stocks hand fit and hand checkered. I suspect many don't even know these guns existed so they don't care or know there is something better than a plastic gun. Gun manufactureres love to sell you a blow molded plastic stock that cost them $5 to $10 on average rather than have to shape, finish, and checker one out of wood. Where was the price reduction when they started doing this in the $90's?

 

[stubbicatt]

Maybe not Tikka in particular, but I too have noticed a diminution of quality in the rifles being sold these days. Some I totally expect to malfunction right out of the box, so prevalent is this QC deficiency.

 

[Ash]

That is why I often buy used. None of my hunting rifles are younger than 30 years old! My 308 and 22 rifles. If nothing else, to keep this oh so old thread going!

Ash

 

[KI.W.]

I like older Tikkas and Sakos. Now those new ones "Berettas" are like Remington, Ruger, Browning, Winchester........

 

[Art Eatman]

Well, when there is market resistance for prices above the $500 level, you're gonna get $500 guns. If a factory only makes $2,000 guns, they're probably not gonna stay in business with the present number of employees.

Back when I gave $200 for a NIB Sako Forrester, gasoline was 30¢ a gallon.

Think of it this way: If you can buy a good shooter for $500, at least the quality of the steel is still good. If you're worried about the plastic parts breaking, buy some spares and lay them back.

But remember that we here are in the minority of all shooters. The great majority own one or few rifles, shoot a few rounds a year and that's it. Warts and all, a Tikka is plenty good. For that matter, even the Rem 710 will meet the needs of many, many hunters...

So let's not get too snobby about how cool we are and how much we know. Don't get your nose so high in the air that when it rains, you'll drown...

Art

 

[alsaqr]

"So let's not get too snobby about how cool we are and how much we know. Don't get your nose so high in the air that when it rains, you'll drown..."


Bingo!!! Chuck Hawks badmouthed receivers being made from bar stock. The Remington 700 and its predecessors have been made that way for nearly 60 years. They are as strong as any factory gun made today and are just as accurate. They are successful too, having totally swamped the competition.

Grew up hunting and shooting with surplus military rifles. It is what we could afford at the time. Thankfully, today i can afford to have a spiffy custom rifle made: No, i do not have one. It would sit in the gun safe for fear of getting it scratched. My guns are bought to use, not to show. My last purchase, a CZ 527, already has a few "character" dings.

 

[Richard.Howe]

As an experiment, look at the post counts of those who HATE the Tikkas, vs. the experience level of those who think the Tikka is a good or great bargain. Interesting exercise. For example, Art vs. IronCurtain.

I DO NOT want plastic on my hunting rifle.

In 50 years when the plastic mags are lost or broken, the plastic trigger guards have snapped off and the plastic stocks are cracking on the Tikka T3's that old Marlin 336 I bought for $250 bucks will still be the same as it is today.

I for one will contiune using my old old Marlin, cherish by CZ 550 and drive my used Japansese car with over 200k miles on it.

...instead of supporting companies and products that have inferior build quality. If that makes me a 'snob' so be it. Maybe if more people did this we'd all be getting a better product instead of the junk out there today.

wow, just wow.

I would suggest that your Japanese car may have one or two pieces of plastic on it, as do my two Toyotas.

Let me also suggest laying a walnut stock in the woods for 50 years next to a composite one, then revisiting the experiment.

My Glocks (fair amount of plastc, as you may know) have swallowed a total of over 60k rounds. No breakages yet.

I would consider myself a rifle snob -- with a closet full of pre-and post-64 model 70's, some in exhibition grade Turkish walnut, and others in McMilan stocks. Most all have some kind of European glass on top.

But I can still recognize the value and robust design of a bargain rifle such as the Tikka. In fact, I've bought a .223 T3 Lite for myself as a beater 'yote rig.

The higher a monkey climbs, the more easily you can see its backside. No need for anyone to sit so high on a horse.

 

[Ash]

Oh, Tikkas are great hunting rifles. Yet, I paid less than half the price of the Tikka for checkered walnut, hinged floor-plate, short bolt throw, iron sights, all in a short-action 308. Indeed, the whole package, Nikon Monarch, Redfield base and turn-in rings, cost less than a Tikka alone.

Of course, it is 30 years old and, granted, the Tikka is almost certainly going to be more accurate. Yet I just like wood a blue. As it is too expensive new, I went used and have been happy ever since. In the end, those of us who like wood and steel are just as legitimate a group as those who like plastic.

(I'll show my walnut and blue 810 in 7mm Mag someday later).

Ash