Class III Legality - Non Registered

[Kramer Krazy]

I was talking with a friend of mine the other day about class III firearms and came up with a scenerio that I didn't know the answer to....

If someone had a class III firearm that was pre-'89.....or even pre-'34, but NOT registered, is there a way to get it registered so you can own it legally?

We were wondering if a person could take a firearm where someone's great-grandaddy didn't want the feds to know he had it, but it was still around, and register it to make it legal. We were thinking there should be a way, guessing the BATF would rather know of the gun and its whereabouts than to not know about it. If not, it forces the owner to want to keep it in hiding. Plus, being able to register it, the person/family could still keep the firearm without running the risk of being jailed for owning it.

So, anyone know?

 

[cliffy109]

I'm pretty sure there was an amnesty period many years ago, but that has expired. You're pretty much hosed.

 

[PMDW]

If someone had a class III firearm that was pre-'89.....or even pre-'34, but NOT registered, is there a way to get it registered so you can own it legally?

Nope. Only Class II manufacturers can add MGs to the NFA registry, and any added after 1986 are for dealers/government only. Period.

 

[whm1974]

Talk to a lawyer who deals with firearm laws. However the best thing is probely get rid of it.

-Bill

 

[Kramer Krazy]

Oopppsss...yeah, pre-'86.

Well, if that is the case. I wonder just how many people out there have unregistered ones, that were legal at one time, but were never registered during the amnesty period. I bet there's at least one family with an heirloom that either:

1) Doesn't realize the firearm is illegal
2) Doesn't want to loose the firearm and will keep it "under wraps"

This is how the conversation came up.......Back in the early '90s, a coworker's friend was trying to sell a 1920's(?) H&R Handy gun in .410. His great-grandfather bought it new, they still had the paperwork for it, but his great-grandfather didn't register it back in 1934(?). At the time, this guy realized it classified as a shorty shotgun, but the family didn't know it for over 20 years, after the great-grandfather passed away. It just sat in a closet. This guy was just wanting to get rid of it, so he didn't run the risk of getting caught with it, but didn't want to just turn it in. I imagine he sold it and it is still floating around, somewhere (I sure didn't buy it. I don't have a use for shotguns, and it would be too easy to make your own with a hacksaw, if you really wanted a shorty shotty).

 

[cliffy109]

Short barreled shotguns fall into a different category than do fully automatic firearms. I don't know if old ones can be registered, but I know new ones can be made and registered.

 

[PMDW]

As long as it's not an MG, you should be able to send in a Form 1 and be good.

 

[Byron Quick]

some folks estimate that WWI veterans brought as many as a million fully automatic weapons and destructive devices home with them. I could easily be mistake but I don't think any submachine guns had been issued for service yet...they were beltfed weapons

When the NFA came into effect in 1934, most heads of households felt forturnate if someone in the house was making $400 a year. Times were tough in the middle of the Great Depression. There's probably a good many left forgotten in attics, hidden in walls, or still hidden by the family. But a good many-how many is unknown-were dropped in holes, or bodies of water or some such.

A few years ago here in Burke County, one of the buried ones was plowed up in a field. A watercooled, beltfed Mauser made in 1918. The internal mechanism was a solid mass of rust but you could still see dents scored by incoming rounds on the cooling sleeve of the weapon. Judging the angles of the ricochets, being the gunner or crew of the weapon was real hazardous one day long ago.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

but his great-grandfather didn't register it back in 1934(?). At the time, this guy realized it classified as a shorty shotgun,

Have your buddy remove the barrel and give it to a friend or family member. Have them take the barrel home and store it. You friend is now in possession of a legal firearm (receiver) and doesn't possess the parts to assemble an illegal SBS.

He can then submit ATF Form 1 to manufacture a short barreled shotgun using his receiver. Once the Form 1 is approved, he can get his friend to give him the barrel back and he now has a legally registered SBS.

 

[CleverNickname]

He can then submit ATF Form 1 to manufacture a short barreled shotgun using his receiver. Once the Form 1 is approved, he can get his friend to give him the barrel back and he now has a legally registered SBS.

AFAIK, he would have to use a different barrel. If he used the original barrel, he would not be "making" a title II firearm.

 

[Randy in Arizona]

Why do Australians pour oil on their gardens?

So their guns don't rust!

Silliness aside, Possession of an un-registered NFA weapon by an individual can lead to a vacation in Club Fed. For that matter possession of an un-registered NON-NFA weapon by an individual can lead to a vacation in Club Fed if BATFe claims in court they managed to make it fire more than one round per trigger pull. Or if your AR15 contains ONE M16 fire control part!

Support the 'Fairness in firearms testing act' HR 1603, which would make it mandatory for BATFE to video document all examination of firearms and ammo.
Free Republic Thread on HR1603

Link for those interested in NFA legal issues

I would bet that there are lots of them out there. I once examined a nice H&R Handy gun when working safety check at the door at a gunshow. It turned out not to be registered. Prior to 1968 you could possess an unregistered Machinegun if it was a DEWAT. (Deactivated War Trophy) Most Dewats were made that way with welding. A dealer I visited had a couple of dozen ‘Dewats’ hanging on the walls and from the ceiling of his store. BATF agents had inspected the guns several times to make sure they were welded and unserviceable. When the amnesty occurred in ’68 he dutifully hauled them down to the BATF office to register them. Even Dewats had to be registered after the GCA’68. It turned out that some of those ‘welds’ that had been checked time & again were cigarette ashes mixed into beeswax, artistically dripped into place to simulate welding.

I wonder how many batches of Selectfire AK47s made it into the US before the Feds caught that bunch in California? How many in container shipments since then? Who is paying for them? Where are they going?


Tinfoil Hat Time!

 

[Standing Wolf]

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment about registering machine guns. Have you?

 

[dloken]

About the HR Handy Gun (Or any other SBR or or SBS), yes the barrel can be separated to make it a Title 1 firearm, but once a Form 1 is accepted it would need a barrel that isn't the original (Since if the serial numbers match between receiver and barrel that would mean it was never a Title 1 firearm)

 

[PMDW]

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment about registering machine guns. Have you?

No, but as it is now, if you don't you go to jail.

If you know how to change that, be my guest. I wouldn't mind.