This is a very timely thread for me. I just bought a .22 rifle last week, a Savage mode 64. This thread answered some of the questions I had with regard to cleaning. However, I was wondering how often you guys lube the action on your semi autos?
Cleaning a .22
- Thread starter Bill2e
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bhk
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ColinthePilot asked:
"Is this all .22 ammo? I shoot the Federal Bulk pack FMJ (or is it plated?) and it doesn't appear to be lubed. Am I missing something?"
No such thing as commercial .22 Long Rifle "FMJ." They are just copperwashed. This is a merely a cosmetic deal and are still lubed, although the lube often tends to be dryer that some plain lead bullets. The copper washed bullets behave no differently ballistically or on impact than plain lead bullets. The term "FMJ" when refering to .22 long rifle ammo has to die!
"Is this all .22 ammo? I shoot the Federal Bulk pack FMJ (or is it plated?) and it doesn't appear to be lubed. Am I missing something?"
No such thing as commercial .22 Long Rifle "FMJ." They are just copperwashed. This is a merely a cosmetic deal and are still lubed, although the lube often tends to be dryer that some plain lead bullets. The copper washed bullets behave no differently ballistically or on impact than plain lead bullets. The term "FMJ" when refering to .22 long rifle ammo has to die!
bhk
Member
MaterDei said:
"With all due respect to the posters who disagree. I'd like to see some evidence that would suggest that a 22 is different from a .223 or any other caliber."
.22 long rifle ammo is MUCH softer than centerfire ammo, causing much less wear. Some target rimfire guns have been fired hundred of thousands of rounds and loose little accuracy. The wear on a .223 barrel can cause a loss of accuracy after just a few thousand rounds. The lubricant on a rimfire round offers a degree of protection against rust. The jacketed bullet of a centerfire offers no such protection.
That said, competitive rimfire benchrest shooters clean their rimfires regularly, often several times during the course of day of shooting. They have found this produces the best accuracy for their extremely high dollar equipment and level of skill. I doubt most of us would ever know the difference. I have several .22s and only regularly clean the barrel of my bench gun. With my moderate level of skill, I am not sure it really helps much.
"With all due respect to the posters who disagree. I'd like to see some evidence that would suggest that a 22 is different from a .223 or any other caliber."
.22 long rifle ammo is MUCH softer than centerfire ammo, causing much less wear. Some target rimfire guns have been fired hundred of thousands of rounds and loose little accuracy. The wear on a .223 barrel can cause a loss of accuracy after just a few thousand rounds. The lubricant on a rimfire round offers a degree of protection against rust. The jacketed bullet of a centerfire offers no such protection.
That said, competitive rimfire benchrest shooters clean their rimfires regularly, often several times during the course of day of shooting. They have found this produces the best accuracy for their extremely high dollar equipment and level of skill. I doubt most of us would ever know the difference. I have several .22s and only regularly clean the barrel of my bench gun. With my moderate level of skill, I am not sure it really helps much.
mcmoyer
Member
I've been shooting my Nylon 66 for 40 years & have never done more to the barrel than run an occasional patch soaked with Hoppes through it. Still a fine shooting rifle.
jrfoxx
Member
Thats my philosophy on pretty much everyhting, not just guns, or .22's. If somthing is working great, why mess with it, and risk damage, or simply causing it to not work a great any more, even though everything went perfect. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
janobles14
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as a gunsmith i will put in my 2 cents...
ALWAYS clean your .22 after you shoot each time. it usually wont corrode but the buildup layering of .22 lead will almost be impossible to remove and over time will cause problems. a barrell was made clean and needs to stay that way. dont sacrifice short term accuracy for long term health.
ALWAYS clean your .22 after you shoot each time. it usually wont corrode but the buildup layering of .22 lead will almost be impossible to remove and over time will cause problems. a barrell was made clean and needs to stay that way. dont sacrifice short term accuracy for long term health.
coloradokevin
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I rarely clean mine because "it's a .22, and I'm lazy".
Really, I will clean it usually about once per box of ammo (every 500 rounds or so). I recently bought a bore snake for .22/.223, so it does make cleaning them a bit easier.
Short of an accuracy drop, I just don't bother... they are plinking and minute-of-squirel guns for me.
Really, I will clean it usually about once per box of ammo (every 500 rounds or so). I recently bought a bore snake for .22/.223, so it does make cleaning them a bit easier.
Short of an accuracy drop, I just don't bother... they are plinking and minute-of-squirel guns for me.
XD Fan
Member
I was told this by an old guy at a Bass Pro range. he really knows his stuff about other things gun related. That comment has sure given me pause.
it's really pretty simple...
1. look at a .22lr round then look at a .223 round. the .22lr round is lead whereas the .223 rounds is jacketed
2. look at a all lead centerfire round (the most common might ne a .38 spl). you'll note that the rimfire round is covered in lube...because the bullet is the same diameter as the case
I have evidence of the "uncleaned" .22 rim fire barrel!
I have been daily cleaning and soaking a pair of old Winchester 67 and Remington Targetmaster 510P barrels for about 8 months now.Apparently the owner did not believe in EVER cleaning the barrel of a .22 rim fire.
At first,I barely got a .17 cal.brush down them.No sign of rifling.I now have rifling in both.Very little left in the Winchester.The Remington has been damaged near the chamber with a gouge.They may make plinkers.Someone surly did not believe in cleaning these rifles.The barrels seem to be full of hard Carbon and continually wear out the Bronze brushes I am using.I am getting a little every day,but it is so slow.:banghead:
I am a firm believer in many .22 rim fire barrels being ruined by the grit from a dirty pocket sticking to the bullet lube and "Fire Gouging" the barrels.alfred
I have been daily cleaning and soaking a pair of old Winchester 67 and Remington Targetmaster 510P barrels for about 8 months now.Apparently the owner did not believe in EVER cleaning the barrel of a .22 rim fire.
At first,I barely got a .17 cal.brush down them.No sign of rifling.I now have rifling in both.Very little left in the Winchester.The Remington has been damaged near the chamber with a gouge.They may make plinkers.Someone surly did not believe in cleaning these rifles.The barrels seem to be full of hard Carbon and continually wear out the Bronze brushes I am using.I am getting a little every day,but it is so slow.:banghead:
I am a firm believer in many .22 rim fire barrels being ruined by the grit from a dirty pocket sticking to the bullet lube and "Fire Gouging" the barrels.alfred
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
It depends on if the barerl is leading or not.
My Kimber, 40x, and Anschutz and 10/22 barrels don't lead, so I don't clean them, unless extraction gets sticky, then i only clean the chambers.
My 1920 (?) Savage leads unbeliveably with any ammo I shoot, I clean that every 200 rounds or so.
My Kimber, 40x, and Anschutz and 10/22 barrels don't lead, so I don't clean them, unless extraction gets sticky, then i only clean the chambers.
My 1920 (?) Savage leads unbeliveably with any ammo I shoot, I clean that every 200 rounds or so.
IndianaBoy
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That is quite simple.
A soft lead bullet, coated in wax lubricant... moving at approximately 1100 fps... vs. an uncoated copper jacket over a lead core, moving at 3200 fps.
I actually stopped cleaning most of my centerfire bores with frequency when I found that the point of impact shifted... from where I had sighted the rifle in with a fouled bore.
There is a lengthy discussion of this in Major John Plaster's (retired US Army sniper) book. A clean bore will take a few shots to move back to the point where it was sighted in while fouled.
So, if you want precise first shots (like the first shot at a squirrel's head with a 22), you can either leave the bore dirty, or clean before each and every shot.
I do have one rifle that shoots exactly the same, clean or dirty. That, in my experience, is unusual. My 30-06 will move as much as 4 inches at 100 yards for a couple shots when it is squeaky clean.
If you are not shooting corrosive ammo, the obsessive desire to clean a gun every time you use it, is completely unnecessary. I will say that my carry pistol is always clean, and properly (lightly) lubricated.
Funderb
Member
I clean my .22s when I feel motivated.
haha.. yeah. That happens a lot.
haha.. yeah. That happens a lot.
matt87
Member
I look after a small shooting club's Anschutz .22 target rifles from which are fired good quality lead LR subs, so my opinions are mainly based upon this. (About 2-3K rounds per rifle, per year.)
Certainly do clean, especially the action. The powder loaded into .22RF is a bit different to that for centrefire I believe, and the residue is quite abrasive. I clean most rifles' actions once every week or two. Barrels, I wipe with a 009-soaked patch then dry patches as/when needed, usually when accuracy drops off, or ammo is hard to chamber. I clean them with a bronze brush 3 times a year, when I strip them all the way down and do a full clean/inspection.
I always make sure to wipe the guns with a silicone spray (WD40) soaked piece of flanelette. This retards corrosion at the least, and can stop it if I do it often enough and everyone else does their job.
To declarify, not cleaning can damage your gun, but so too can excessive cleaning.
Certainly do clean, especially the action. The powder loaded into .22RF is a bit different to that for centrefire I believe, and the residue is quite abrasive. I clean most rifles' actions once every week or two. Barrels, I wipe with a 009-soaked patch then dry patches as/when needed, usually when accuracy drops off, or ammo is hard to chamber. I clean them with a bronze brush 3 times a year, when I strip them all the way down and do a full clean/inspection.
I always make sure to wipe the guns with a silicone spray (WD40) soaked piece of flanelette. This retards corrosion at the least, and can stop it if I do it often enough and everyone else does their job.
To declarify, not cleaning can damage your gun, but so too can excessive cleaning.
Boomerang
Member
My target pistol has never had a brush down the bore in over 25k rounds.
It does however, get a brush in the chamber and the other parts get a routine cleaning.
I've heard of cheap guns like a Sig mosquito getting a leaded bore, but never a well made 22 target barrel.
It does however, get a brush in the chamber and the other parts get a routine cleaning.
I've heard of cheap guns like a Sig mosquito getting a leaded bore, but never a well made 22 target barrel.
scrat
Member
I agree i only clean all the action parts. I hardly ever clean the barrel. its not like im shooting black powder. Accuracy can last a long long time. so i never have been much too concerned about it.
Thor Bloodax
Member
cleaning the .22 bore
I did bullsye shooting with a .22 Browning Medalist many years go when I could hold the pistol steady with one hand. I could tell accuracy was falling off at around 80 to 90 rounds. I would fire 100 rounds at a session and swab the barrel. That closed up the groups again. Plinker rifles: keep the action clean and clean the barrels when accuracy falls off. (may take a while on the old reliables!)
I did bullsye shooting with a .22 Browning Medalist many years go when I could hold the pistol steady with one hand. I could tell accuracy was falling off at around 80 to 90 rounds. I would fire 100 rounds at a session and swab the barrel. That closed up the groups again. Plinker rifles: keep the action clean and clean the barrels when accuracy falls off. (may take a while on the old reliables!)
We all have our opinion on when to clean, or even how.
1. Rimfires are very different than centerfires, whether it be the lead 22LR or the Copper jacketed HMR. When it comes to accuracy USUALLY rimfires have to be shot for the groups to shrink, HMR's seem to drop almost in half around 100 rounds, numerous people can testify to this. My 93 FSVV would shoot well over 3 inches at 100 yards, and then around 100 rounds it was like a switch was thrown, dropped down to a touch over 1 inch, my Anschutz 17 HM2 was the exact same way. All but one of my 22LR's would not group till about 20 rounds, that includes Rugers, Savages, Mossbergs, Remingtons, Winchesters. For some reason high end match rifles have to be cleaned often, I would assume it is because very high tolerances.
2. A firearm can be over cleaned? How, unless the person is using steel brushes and rods to clean it, it is dang near impossible for a person to clean a rifle to the point of ruining it. Unless my basic knowledge of metallurgy is wrong, brass cannot hurt steel, ever.
3. A firearm can be under cleaned. Of course. A poster earlier mentioned that he bought a smooth bore, and it wasn't a smooth bore after it was cleaned, same thing happened to me. I am sure a lot of us have found a rifle for super cheap and it turned out that apparently the previous owner used tar to lube the action.
4. Leaving your gun dirty won't hurt it, unless it is wet. Not cleaning your rifle after shooting for hours and then not feeling like cleaning them that night WILL NOT make your rifles turn to a pile of rust. I wipe down the outside of the blued models and clean it the next day. Never had a problem.
5. Not cleaning a barrel after a few thousand rounds won't cause the rifling to disappear. To get the barrel to the point that it is totally leaded up would probably take tens of thousands of rounds. I know, I got bored one weekend, bought about 20K of bulk ammo and decided to see how fast I could shoot it. That 10*22 was filthy, rifling was still easily visible.
6. You can over oil a rifle, especially a semi auto. Builds up dirt and grease really fast.
Personally, I clean the snot out of mine when they get put away for the season, heavy coat of oil and bore cleaner. The rimfires only get the action and exterior cleaned when I am done shooting, sometimes, always a wipe down. Barrels when accuracy fades.
The truth is, not one single person has stated a fact about cleaning a rifle, not me, no one, just personal opinions and experiences. It is up to the people who want to know that have to do it their own way.
The only truth is that they do need cleaned, after that it is up to the individual owner.
It is better to clean and not worry than never clean and have a problem on your hands in 10 years.
1. Rimfires are very different than centerfires, whether it be the lead 22LR or the Copper jacketed HMR. When it comes to accuracy USUALLY rimfires have to be shot for the groups to shrink, HMR's seem to drop almost in half around 100 rounds, numerous people can testify to this. My 93 FSVV would shoot well over 3 inches at 100 yards, and then around 100 rounds it was like a switch was thrown, dropped down to a touch over 1 inch, my Anschutz 17 HM2 was the exact same way. All but one of my 22LR's would not group till about 20 rounds, that includes Rugers, Savages, Mossbergs, Remingtons, Winchesters. For some reason high end match rifles have to be cleaned often, I would assume it is because very high tolerances.
2. A firearm can be over cleaned? How, unless the person is using steel brushes and rods to clean it, it is dang near impossible for a person to clean a rifle to the point of ruining it. Unless my basic knowledge of metallurgy is wrong, brass cannot hurt steel, ever.
3. A firearm can be under cleaned. Of course. A poster earlier mentioned that he bought a smooth bore, and it wasn't a smooth bore after it was cleaned, same thing happened to me. I am sure a lot of us have found a rifle for super cheap and it turned out that apparently the previous owner used tar to lube the action.
4. Leaving your gun dirty won't hurt it, unless it is wet. Not cleaning your rifle after shooting for hours and then not feeling like cleaning them that night WILL NOT make your rifles turn to a pile of rust. I wipe down the outside of the blued models and clean it the next day. Never had a problem.
5. Not cleaning a barrel after a few thousand rounds won't cause the rifling to disappear. To get the barrel to the point that it is totally leaded up would probably take tens of thousands of rounds. I know, I got bored one weekend, bought about 20K of bulk ammo and decided to see how fast I could shoot it. That 10*22 was filthy, rifling was still easily visible.
6. You can over oil a rifle, especially a semi auto. Builds up dirt and grease really fast.
Personally, I clean the snot out of mine when they get put away for the season, heavy coat of oil and bore cleaner. The rimfires only get the action and exterior cleaned when I am done shooting, sometimes, always a wipe down. Barrels when accuracy fades.
The truth is, not one single person has stated a fact about cleaning a rifle, not me, no one, just personal opinions and experiences. It is up to the people who want to know that have to do it their own way.
The only truth is that they do need cleaned, after that it is up to the individual owner.
It is better to clean and not worry than never clean and have a problem on your hands in 10 years.
jhansman
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Last time I posted a cleaning question over there I got dumped on big time for trying to start an argument. It was, in fact, the last time.
Me, I clean my CZ452 .22LR everytime I shoot it. I doubt it could be more accurate, so cleaning it can't hurt.
Rubber_Duck
Member
#20
I hope I haven't degraded the accuracy of my Model 60 as I tend to clean my guns every time I shoot. Of course, I never read the manual for it (the manual was probably lost some 20 or 30 years ago!).
After reading this thread, I think I will stop using the brush. A patch and my little jar of Hoppes #9 should do the trick.
I hope I haven't degraded the accuracy of my Model 60 as I tend to clean my guns every time I shoot. Of course, I never read the manual for it (the manual was probably lost some 20 or 30 years ago!).
After reading this thread, I think I will stop using the brush. A patch and my little jar of Hoppes #9 should do the trick.
Win75
Member
I clean all my .22's after every time I shoot them and always have.
pistolero6869
Member
22 rimfire
Being ex Military I have alway cleaned my 22LR pistols and rifles. Ny pistols are a eary Browning challengerII , a Colt Diamondback 6" a newer Browing Buck mark. a old Daisy 22 bolt action youth model, a marlin model 60 semi auto rifle. I swab the bore with Kroil let it sit clean action with Hoppies lube with Tetra gun oil run a dry patch thu the kroil soaled bores and call it a day!
Being ex Military I have alway cleaned my 22LR pistols and rifles. Ny pistols are a eary Browning challengerII , a Colt Diamondback 6" a newer Browing Buck mark. a old Daisy 22 bolt action youth model, a marlin model 60 semi auto rifle. I swab the bore with Kroil let it sit clean action with Hoppies lube with Tetra gun oil run a dry patch thu the kroil soaled bores and call it a day!
SSN Vet
Member
Just follow the instructions that came with you firearm and you should be all set.
CajunBass
Member
Clean a 22? That sounds like work. I'll wipe them down from time to time, and squirt some "Gunscrubber" in there once in a while and drop or two of oil if it looks like it needs some. Every February 29th or so I'll run a wet patch through the barrel. Good enough 'till next time.
g.willikers
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What about those who live in high humidity near salt water?
Around here, stuff seems to rust overnight, 22 barrels too.
Even without use, cleaning and lubing must be done every few months or else.
It must depend on where one lives.
Around here, stuff seems to rust overnight, 22 barrels too.
Even without use, cleaning and lubing must be done every few months or else.
It must depend on where one lives.
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