Cleaning The Judge

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NoWake200

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Missouri, The Split State of the Civil War.
I first want to introduce myself.... I am new to the Forum. Usually I hang around Diesel Truck and Boat forums. What I am saying is I am in no means a gun expert and hope to learn a little more by being part of the group.

I have recently purchased The Judge. I have so far shot 100 rounds out of her(50 and 50). They where the Long Colts with a Cowboy Load. After each time I cleaned the gun and to my displeasure it is a S.O.B. to do so. I could only find Cowboy Loads and I am thinking this may have something to do with it. No matter how much solvent I use and even using the next size brush it still does not break down the power/caked on residue. I use the Hoppe's 9 solvent and never had any problems cleaning my shotguns with it.

Is this just the nature of the beast with The Judge or with the Cowboy Loads? Are there any other suggestions to solvents that may be more suited for the job?

I really want to keep shooting the gun, but if it is going to be this hard to clean I just may put it on the self..... which I really do not want to do.

Thanks for the help.
 
First, welcome to The High Road. For the most part, you'll meet interesting and helpful people here.

Second, I have no experience with your specific firearm, but I've spend a lot of hours cleaning handguns, rifles and shotguns.

I assume you refer to residue in the bore, not an accumulation of crud on the front of the cylinder or other locations on the outside of the gun.

If so, are your sure the gunk in question is in fact powder residue, or could it be leading (deposits of lead from the bullet, usually occurring in the first inch or so of the bore on the cylinder end). I ask because Cowboy loads are by rule lead bullets only. If it's in fact leading, the cheapest solution is a tool called a Lewis Lead Remover. Brownells or Midway carry them. It's like a regular cleaning rod except with a rubber bushing on the end that takes a brass screen. The brass screen forms over the bushing and tight to the bore and removes the lead deposits. There is a difference of opinion as to the effectiveness of firing a couple of jacketed bullets to "scrape out the lead." I'm not an advocate. I recommend that you take out the lead first, then try some jacketed ammunition to see if you have the same residue problem.

If you don't, then it's probably leading from the Cowboy loads.

What ever it is, you can make your life easier by getting some J&B Bore Paste, also available from Brownells, and polishing the he** out of the bore. Leading or even powder residue is often exacerbated by a rough bore. Could be your Judge was made just before they changed out the barrel reamer. J&B is a very mild abrasive. I use it on every new firearm before I shoot it. Cleaning is a lot easier and leading is reduced. Good luck, I think the Judge is a neat concept and I hope you two learn to get along.
 
I didn't think about the possibility that the .410 shot could be causing the leading. I don't know if the .410 has a plastic shot cup or not. If not, the lead shot in a rifled barrel may be a part of your problem. Other Judge owners may weigh in here. Next time you shoot it, you might try just .45 or just .410 and see if that makes a difference. The recommendation for Lewis Lead Remover and J&B Bore Paste stands even if the residue isn't lead from either load.
 
Wow, thank you all for the very detailed information.

Coyote3855, that is the exact location of the problem spots. And yes as you mentioned the cowboy loads are lead. I will look for the products this weekend.

I only fired 5 rounds of .410 buckshot at the end. But I will go with the suggestion of firing one at a time to see what the outcome will be.

rcmodel, I will give the tornado a try. I was actually thinking of connecting something to my drill. But honestly I was chicken.

Thanks again and I will let you know how it all turns out.
 
NoWake,

As a warning, don't buy the S&B (Seller & Belloit, spelling?) 410 buckshot rounds for the Judge. They don't chamber worth a damn. I've never had a problem with the Winchester 410 rounds.

And yes you can buy 45 colt in something other than "Cowboy" rounds. I have 100 rounds of very nasty looking CCI Blazer jacketed hollow points here that I got at a closeout sale.
 
I'm curious if you bought Judge for a specific duty or just for the heck of it. I find it an interesting weapon but I can't really figure a use for it.
 
I can...but not a legal one. The long barrel version might be good for roadhunting.
 
I bought that derringer which is 45 Colt and 410 also. The Colt would make a serious defense round but the 410 has almost no penetration given the short barrel. People think of the 410 as a 'hell weapon' when it really isn't much at all.
 
slide said:
I'm curious if you bought Judge for a specific duty or just for the heck of it. I find it an interesting weapon but I can't really figure a use for it.
Click to expand...

I got mine for a specific duty ... travel gun/car gun. It's meant for short range SD, and it can do that quite well in either 410 or 45 Colt. I keep mine loaded with 1 round of #4 shot, followed by 4 rounds of buckshot. If I can discourage a BG with a load of #4 to the face, so much the better. If not, well, then enjoy the buckshot ... 3 .380 rounds coming all at once ... X4.
 
It holds 8? Have you tried shooting against, say, a pine board to see penetration? My derringer in 410 will just about pentrate thick paper with the bird shot loads.
 
slide said:
It holds 8? Have you tried shooting against, say, a pine board to see penetration? My derringer in 410 will just about pentrate thick paper with the bird shot loads.
Click to expand...

No, it holds 5 rounds. Lead off is 1 round of #4 shot. The next 4 rounds are Winchester 000 buckshot rounds. 3 X 000 pellets each.

Birdshot is one thing, buckshot is a whole nuther animal. Will the #4 shot give me kick ass one shot stop penetration? No, but it isn't meant to. That load of #4 to the face is meant as a discouragement. Doesn't take a lot of penetration to blind somebody with #4 buckshot.

If that isn't sufficiently discouraging the followup 12 pellets of 000 buck delivered 3 at a time should be.

That Winchester 000 buckshot should make a nice round in your derringer, you should try it.
 
I will try it, but you didn't specifically answer me. Have YOU tried using any of those loads against something like a soft pine board to see penetration? It's one thing to say you are loading to shoot at a face but another to be able to pull it off.

I've personally seen a 25 cal shot 5 or 6 times at a fat guy wearing a biker leather jacket. The bullets never got to the guy being stuck in the leather. While a 25 is weak, I think the buckshot is weak too.
 
slide said:
I will try it, but you didn't specifically answer me. Have YOU tried using any of those loads against something like a soft pine board to see penetration?
Click to expand...

Oh ya, and at HD ranges (ie, 25' and under) it's pretty nasty. I don't have any photos for you, but if I go to the range this week I'll try and remember to get some.
 
I guess the few additional inches of barrel make a huge difference in performance. My derringer is pretty useless with birdshot. Of course, a shot to the face will be intimidating but aside from that, it's pretty useless.
 
Coyote3855, I went to the store to find the products you mentioned and I was surprised they did not have them. I did however find a "bore paste" from "Break Free" and I am going to give that a try today. I will just have to order the Lewis Lead Remover on line.

rcmodel, the drill idea worked great!!! I found the "tornado" however the 100 of them that were in stock were for just .38.:scrutiny: Go figure! I will order that as well on line, because it too looks like it will work well.

Thank you for the great information again. :)
 
slide said:
I guess the few additional inches of barrel make a huge difference in performance. My derringer is pretty useless with birdshot. Of course, a shot to the face will be intimidating but aside from that, it's pretty useless.
Click to expand...

Taurus Judge Ultralite, 4" barrel, 2.5 " chamber for .410 loads

3/4 inch pine board, #4 shot, 8 paces.
Surprisingly, some did penetrate ... I wasn't expecting them to.

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/mgkdrgn/Taurus%20Judge/4Shotfront.jpg

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/mgkdrgn/Taurus%20Judge/4Shotrear.jpg

3/4" Pine board, 000 buck, 8 paces, all balls penetrate, like a hot knife through soft butter.

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/mgkdrgn/Taurus Judge/000BuckFront.jpg

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/mgkdrgn/Taurus Judge/000Buckrear.jpg

Pressure treated 2" x 8", 000 buck, 8 paces, all balls penetrated

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/mgkdrgn/Taurus%20Judge/000Buck2x8front.jpg

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/mgkdrgn/Taurus%20Judge/000Buck2x8rear.jpg

The 000 buck also penetrated the pine board Plus the 2x8, but not quite 2 2x8's. Balls protruded out the back but did not exit the 2nd 2x8.

I would suspect the the Judge chambered for the 3" .410 load would have penetrated the pine with the #4 shot, and would have penetrated the 2nd 2x8. In 000 buck it also fires 5 balls in the 3" rather than the three balls in the 2.5", which would just add to the party.
 
Thx That's WAY WAY more penetration than my derringer produced. I doubt the birdshot would have penetrated its own diameter.
 
slide said:
Thx That's WAY WAY more penetration than my derringer produced. I doubt the birdshot would have penetrated its own diameter.
Click to expand...

There are lots of folks that phoo phoo the Judge, and say it's a "gimic" gun, of no real use. I don't agree, at all. For it's intended use, short range SD, it's only "failing" is that it's only 5 shots ... but then so is a S&W J frame. I for sure wouldn't want to be standing on the wrong end of it when it goes off.
 
I looked at all of the above pictures. If I ever get shot at, I hope it is with a Taurus Judge loaded with .410. I'm not impressed.
 
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