Cleveland Taco Bell employees shoot and kill armed robber

[joed]

Aw please, don't be so kind.
Actually overall Ohio in general is pretty good with little restriction in gun ownership and CCW including open carry. Less guns, Cleveland in the right areas is OK. They are typical for the region with trying to usurp the rights of gun owners and have been trumped several times by state law with their restrictive gun nonsense. When it comes to guns Ohio Law trumps anything small cities or towns try to enact. I ended up here in '72 when the Marine Corps sent me here as a then 22 year old right out of Vietnam. Despite a few escapes over the years I kept ending up here and eventually retired from a good company and a job I enjoyed. Thinking about NC but for now this is it. Planning lunch today at a nice beach bar on the lake. The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is nice and they have a good playhouse square. Living in the burbs what happens downtown really doesn't have any effect on me. The winters do suck!

As I mentioned, I am waiting to see how this Taco Bell thing plays out. It should get interesting as in many cities it would have never been considered to charge the shooters but this is indeed Cleveland and a mecca for those against the gun.

Ron

You put your finger on what is wrong with Cleveland, it's run by those against the gun. I'd bet they will try to charge those involved before this is over. And in the mean time the hood is killing people every day. The police have their hands tied and do very little of anything other then take reports.

I grew up here and it wasn't always like this. For four years I complained about the drug dealer living across the street from me, nothing was ever done. Every night I would read about people being killed within a mile of where I lived. Cleveland is a cesspool. I left the city 2 years ago and live out in the country now.

Unfortunately you're right about winter here too which usually runs from Sept to June.

 

[Axis II]

You put your finger on what is wrong with Cleveland, it's run by those against the gun. I'd bet they will try to charge those involved before this is over. And in the mean time the hood is killing people every day. The police have their hands tied and do very little of anything other then take reports.

I grew up here and it wasn't always like this. For four years I complained about the drug dealer living across the street from me, nothing was ever done. Every night I would read about people being killed within a mile of where I lived. Cleveland is a cesspool. I left the city 2 years ago and live out in the country now.

Unfortunately you're right about winter here too which usually runs from Sept to June.

I spent my life all the way to highschool living in Cleveland and every year it got worse and we were in a nice part so my parents said we are moving and its the best thing ever. I wouldn't move back to the city for anything.

 

[Jim NE]

I'm honestly not trying to be political, but I feel the George Zimmerman case a few years ago was all about trying to cast a sinister shadow on concealed carry. An attempt at a nationwide indictment of people who carry to protect themselves. That was the media and anti-gun establishment's goal. It never worked for them. If it had, a case like this would be getting a lot more airplay on the national news.

 

[george29]

That's an interesting thought, Zimmerman vs Taco Bell. Hmm.
For starters, I can't recall reading something positive on guns in the mass media, ever.
Secondly, the Zimmerman incident was quite unusual, most of us don't actively get involved especially if the 911 operator says to get lost, most of us will shrug it off unless something is happening to us personally. So, the Zimmerman incident was unusual.
But I do agree that the media sites love to give gun owners a black eye whenever possible.
All I can say is what I said previously, I'm more interested in the legal ramifications than what the news rags report.
Not far from where I live about a year ago a home owner shot and wounded (later on the kid died) a 15 year old intruder, I don't think it made the national news because the homeowner wasn't charged or prosecuted.

http://m.rrobserver.com/news/article_1b13fbc0-2f62-11e6-a36c-0b7db393eede.html

 

[Arizona_Mike]

the Zimmerman incident was quite unusual, most of us don't actively get involved especially if the 911 operator says to get lost

That is not a factual statement. Aside from the 911 operator's words not being a lawful order, it does not fit the time line. Zimmerman had already decided not to pursue Martin south along the leg of the "T" but continued east to read the name of the street sign. Zimmerman was attacked from behind when he was returning to his car from east to west along the top of the "T". Martian's girlfriend testified that he told her that he had arrived in his stepfather's back yard which was about a dozen houses south of the intersection of the "T". Martin turned around and became the pursuer some time after that point going a considerable distance back north along the leg of the "T".

The entire press huhaw was because the press initially assumed Zimmerman what white (not Hispanic and 1/8th black). Everything from the altered 911 tape to the New York Times using the phrase "white Hispanic" for only the 5th time in their >150 year history was an attempt to salvage that racial narrative.

Mike

 

[Deanimator]

The entire press huhaw was because the press initially assumed Zimmerman what white (not Hispanic and 1/8th black). Everything from the altered 911 tape to the New York Times using the phrase "white Hispanic" for only the 5th time in their >150 year history was an attempt to salvage that racial narrative.

"White Hispanic" was a euphemism for something they dared not say at the time, but were DRIVEN to hint at.

While I think that Zimmerman is an idiot with poor impulse control, the whole thing stank of anti-Semitism from the start, a psychopathology well represented in the ranks of apologists for Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.

 

[george29]

How did this become antisemitism

 

[Deanimator]

How did this become antisemitism

The usual suspects saw the name "Zimmerman" without seeing his face and the first thing that entered their "minds" was "JOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!".

Then they saw what he really looked like and thereafter ensued enough media and SJW tapdancing to put a million man army of Fred Astaires to shame.

Black Lies Matter and its supporters are thoroughly shot through with Jew haters.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

You have to live here to appreciate this. In the city you may never get anyone from LE to help you. We are told to give the thief what they want and not resist. If the thief is ever caught nothing happens to them. In this case 1 of them will not be back on the street. I think they should have taken the corpse outside and nailed it to a tree as a lesson for others.

Two years ago I decided I had enough after going to a drug store on a Sunday evening. As I pulled into the parking lot 2 thugs came running off the street and stood by the door of the store waiting for me to try and enter. Having a CCW I put my gun on my belt and got out of the truck heading for the store. After about 3 steps I decided it wasn't worth it, got back in the truck and bought a house in the country the next week.

There is something wrong with a society that encourages these thugs. I still wonder what would have happened to me had I confronted the 2 thugs at that drug store.

In 2010 the manager of a Papa Johns in Redford Va was murdered and left dead on the floor. At the time they didn't know by who. Later an employee was arrested for the murder. Radford isn't a terrible place, but not the best either. Salem and Roanoke have had a continuing problem with delivery drivers for Papa Johns, Dominos and Pizza Hut being robbed at gun point, yet these companies prohibit employees to carry even though Virginia has what I (and many pro 2nd Amendment folks) consider sane gun laws.

It's sad and agrivating when companies like this value social pressure to protect criminals over the lives of their employees. All the folks who posted that we don't know all the facts are right. In the Papa Johns murder it took awhile for facts to come out. Imagine the outrage if the manager had been armed and able to defend himself. Some of us would have supported his right to defend himself. But the media would have painted him as the bad guy. He would have been fired for violating company policy and I'm betting the other guys family would have sued him.

The sad truth is that the Cleveland Taco Bell case will only get media attention if it's anti gun. If no charges and law suits are filed we won't know.

Personally, I'm not sure what we can do, but maybe it's time to start getting more positive stories out. I for one am sick of thugs attacking people, attempting to rob, or attacking police then being shot and killed and the real victim is pained as a murderer. When someone exercises their right to defend themselves they shouldn't have their lives ruined by the media and by lawyers of the families of thugs. IMHO it's too bad the real victims can't sue the family. After all, they were the ones who didn't teach the thug respect, right and wrong and are showing it by calling someone who robs and attacks a "good boy".

I'm sorry, but if you try to take a police officers gun, come at them with a knife, point a gun (even a toy), ram them with a car or don't follow their command you're risking your life.

I've been attacked by a gunman in a "gun free zone" and I commend Taco Bell for offering counseling. My employer didn't do much, and in fact harmed me. Finding a lawyer was tough as I'm not a minority and most lawyers don't like fighting the state. So I'm not sure what to think but I hope and pray that the armed employees were working an honest job and were carrying to protect themselves and not for more sinister reasons.

/rant

 

[joed]

Hokie_PhD, I couldn't agree more. This area has changed so much, there are gangs, breakins, muggings and car jackings, and we're told to give the thugs what they want. In due time the police will show up and make a report.

No one should have to live like that, lets get rid of the thugs.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Hokie_PhD, I couldn't agree more. This area has changed so much, there are gangs, breakins, muggings and car jackings, and we're told to give the thugs what they want. In due time the police will show up and make a report.

No one should have to live like that, lets get rid of the thugs.

I hate the don't fight back give them what they want nonsense.
In my case I managed to shock the gunman so an unarmed security guard could tackle him. The news later reported that he planned to kill me. Had I cowered under a desk like I was instructed to do, I'd be dead now and he might have got away.

It sickens me that we haven't learned from the lessons of 9/11. We haven't learned that there are folks who will kill us if we comply. I don't know about anyone else, but I now avoid so called gun free zones. I try to be very aware of my surroundings and use my training in situational awareness all the time.

The left has called us Islamaphobic, racists, etc if we speak up. Yet we're also told to report anything suspicious. It's nuts.

 

[Deanimator]

I hate the don't fight back give them what they want nonsense.

9/11 really did put a big hole below the waterline in that, as have the Bataclan, etc.

It sickens me that we haven't learned from the lessons of 9/11. We haven't learned that there are folks who will kill us if we comply. I don't know about anyone else, but I now avoid so called gun free zones. I try to be very aware of my surroundings and use my training in situational awareness all the time

Many, probably the majority of people have learned the lesson. You just have to understand that there is a vocal minority which is trying to FIGHT the lesson because they support the victimizers rather than the victims,whether they be jihadis or generic thugs.

Remember, on December 8th, 1941, the Jeannette Rankins of the world were a VERY lonely bunch indeed. That didn't stop them from trying to convince sane people to roll over for Japanese militarism.

 

[Kendahl]

What happens after legitimate self defense varies depending on the location. About forty years ago, I was told by an Omaha, Nebraska police sergeant during a gun class that no home owner in Douglas County had ever been prosecuted for shooting an invader. That record still stands. On average, the owner of a home or business shoots a criminal once a year. (Some years there are several such incidents. Sometimes, we go for several years with none.) A few days ago, three men in their late teens attempted an armed robbery of a privately owned (not a chain) tobacco store (http://www.omaha.com/news/crime/cha...cle_72437590-9fcf-11e7-9521-c78d002b9b60.html). An employee traded shots with two of the robbers with fatal consequences for one robber. The county attorney, who serves as prosecutor, has announced that he will not file any charges against the employee. If there has ever been a case of a criminal or his family successfully suing a defender, I haven't heard about it. Judging by the comments I read in various media, a plaintiff would have a hard time finding a sympathetic jury.

 

[george29]

I too thought "Wow, a Jew fighting back? That usually only happens in Israel." Hope this doesn't come off as me being racist, I'm not (at least I don't consider myself racist) but, well, you know, I also didn't associate the name with a Hispanic guy.

The usual suspects saw the name "Zimmerman" without seeing his face and the first thing that entered their "minds" was "JOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!".

Then they saw what he really looked like and thereafter ensued enough media and SJW tapdancing to put a million man army of Fred Astaires to shame.

Black Lies Matter and its supporters are thoroughly shot through with Jew haters.

 

[Mn Fats]

How is this not shut down yet. Wake up mods. Far from firearms.

 

[Reloadron]

On an interesting note things related to this story have been quiet. Nothing out of the County Prosecutor as to any charges being brought against the shooters. My guess, and pure speculation is if any gun charges were to be filed they would have done so by now. Things are quiet surprisingly.

Ron

 

[Creature]

Something doesn't feel right. My guess is there is a lot more to this story.

That was my first thought as well. My hinky detector is pegged.

 

[Reloadron]

That was my first thought as well. My hinky detector is pegged.

My reads on it and I say reads because the story ran locally on 3 TV stations as well as the local newspaper and a few other off the wire news sources is that it went down exactly as it was described.
FOX 8 Cleveland TV
CLEVELAND, OH (WOIO) Channel 19
US News and World Report
There are plenty more but a shooting in any fast food restaurant in any major US city is hardly a major breaking news event. Restaurants are robbed everyday but this time a few really stupid bad guys picked the wrong place to rob. One bad guy managed to get away and one bad guy was not quite so lucky, he was hit six times. So far no one, including the employees, has been arrested in this case. Armed robberies like this have become fairly common place and this one only garnered attention because a bad guy ended up dead and was not shot by police. This all went down after about 2:00 AM. Seriously, being around here and familiar with the area and culture I see no reason to believe there is more to the story. The restaurant chain made their stance pretty clear when they pointed out: "Taco Bell public relations told FOX 8 this is a franchise store and the gun policy is at their discretion". Anyway, bad guy dead another bad guy took off and is yet to be found. I don't see anything more to it.

While the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor office can be over zealous with bringing gun charges against people they likely figure it would have been hard to get a grand jury to bring an indictment and even more difficult to get this through trial with any charges they could come up with. So far they have let it go. I have no idea how long they have to bring formal charges if they intend to do so but as of now they have taken no action against the shooters. As to the whole shooting? I really see no reason to hear things start going bump in the night.

Ron