CMP 1911 Sales Reopen

[CapnMac]

The Brits call motorcycles like this "bitsa's", bits of this, bits of that. No thank you.

To each their own.

Now, in some fairness, the one I was issued in 1985 was a "bitsa."

That's pretty standard US military practice.

Especially at higher levels of Armory cleaning. They get an entire group of firearms, 50 or 60 at a time, and they are taken down to individual parts, and the parts are pitched in suitable bins of solvent. The arms are reassembled using the next cleaned part in the bin, not the one it left the factory with (except by long-shot accident).

If it met spec as parts, and went bang on demand, it went back into the racks for issue. And, military spec for these was about minute of shed, handguns were weapons of last resort, not primary defense (or offense) items.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

To each their own.

Now, in some fairness, the one I was issued in 1985 was a "bitsa."

That's pretty standard US military practice.

Especially at higher levels of Armory cleaning. They get an entire group of firearms, 50 or 60 at a time, and they are taken down to individual parts, and the parts are pitched in suitable bins of solvent. The arms are reassembled using the next cleaned part in the bin, not the one it left the factory with (except by long-shot accident).

If it met spec as parts, and went bang on demand, it went back into the racks for issue. And, military spec for these was about minute of shed, handguns were weapons of last resort, not primary defense (or offense) items.

Too true.
Our G.I. guns and ALL the DCM 1911s (acknowledging the possibility of the rarest of exceptions) were at least once *arsenal refinished* in many cases multiple times. The likelihood of a pistol EVER re-finding its original components after surface treating and finishing is nil.
Some were individually arsenal serviced as complete firearms but these would have had targeted recipients and entering the surplus market would have been highly unlikely.

I have a Colt 1911 that was arsenal refurbished in such a way that it retains pre-A1 components and yet is parkerized. Still, I don't begin to kid myself that it is as built by Colt in 1918.

Todd.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...She is a shooter and that's all....

I think that is all they were ever intended to be. Serviceable, "shooter" guns with which citizens can practice marksmanship. I think that's kind of the core mission, or was, of the CMP going back to the old DCM days. (Now, you can certainly make an argument that if the guns are just supposed to be used for teaching marksmanship, there are far better, cheaper options on today's market; I certainly wouldn't argue against that.)

I think the "collector" guns, if any came through the CMP system, were to be sold through the auction system. Anyone who thought they were going to get some pristine, matching number, super rare, Singer Sewing Machine, 1911A1, by random draw, for a thousand dollars, was fooling themselves from the beginning.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I missed out on this the first time. I won't miss out this time.

I was under the impression, at the time of the first sale, that anyone who didn't get one would hold their place in line if there was ever a second round. I don't know if that's correct, but it seemed at the time that it was. You may want to send them an email and ask.

I just seem to recall that my number was in the mid 7000s, out of only 8k possible sales, and numbers 8k and above would have to wait.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Are you sure you could sell that pistol for a small profit?

I haven't seen them for sale for less and people are still buying them from the CMP so I would think so. Only time will tell.

There is enough demand. Especially if there are still people who get left out of this next sale. I'm sure there are many people who would pay a premium to get next day delivery and skip the 10-month wait that I experienced, especially if they could view photos, or handle the gun, prior to purchase.

 

[H&R Glock]

I'd be tempted to get one of those Turkish knock offs and have it professionally engraved "US PROPERTY" and put it in a shadow box on the wall. It would perform two duties, save me $700 and impress the hell out of my neighbors.
If I wanted it to look total G.I., I'd put a few hundred rounds thru it and then drive over it in my pickup truck first.
The CMP wants too much cash.

 

[Jimbo80]

IThe CMP wants too much cash.

Take a look at what they spend the money on and you may change your mind.

 

[H&R Glock]

Yes, Yes I know, but the way I look at it, the government spends my money ($35??) buying it and then sells it back to me.for ($850?). They got me coming and going! If I had a racket like that they would be calling me "Don H&R Block."

 

[.455_Hunter]

When were these re-arsenaled? Pre or post-M9 adoption?

Or done more recently?

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

When were these re-arsenaled? Pre or post-M9 adoption?

Or done more recently?

These, by definition are not arsenal refurbished guns. Those - as far as 1911s are concerned - have not existed for decades.

These were assembled by CMP from U.S. and repatriated U.S. surplus stocks.

Still started out as U.S. guns at one point but as you hold one, it was not an arsenal refurbished, Government inventory, issue-grade firearm.

More an issue of paying highly competent component inspectors and assemblers to build a G.I. gun for you from parts.

Basically what the Military was doing the last 25 years or so of 1911 issue anyhow.

Todd.

 

[Jimbo80]

[QUOTE="H&R Glock]Yes, Yes I know, but the way I look at it, the government spends my money ($35??) buying it and then sells it back to me.for ($850?)[/QUOTE]

If you were paying taxes when the CMP guns were made you had plenty of opportunity to purchase all you wanted for $10. Seriously, It's been a couple of decades since the CMP has been Government run. They've been a Non Profit since '96. If you visit the Marksmanship Park you'll see they aren't wasting it.

[QUOTE=".455_Hunter]When were these re-arsenaled? Pre or post-M9 adoption?

. Both, many multiple times. From pre WWI til they went out of service. They were in storage for quite some time before the CMP got them.

 

[.455_Hunter]

When were these re-arsenaled? Pre or post-M9 adoption?

Or done more recently?

I thought I had read about this and it took a bit to find. At least with most of the original 8,000, the story is...

... the majority of the pistols currently in the [CMP] vault are M1911A1s that were until recently in a Defense Logistics Agency warehouse. These pistols were rebuilt at Anniston Army Depot (“ANAD”) between 1978 and 1982, and they wear a light gray Parkerized finish.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/5/22/the-cmp-m1911s-the-inside-story/

 

[JDeere]

I think the "collector" guns, if any came through the CMP system, were to be sold through the auction system. Anyone who thought they were going to get some pristine, matching number, super rare, Singer Sewing Machine, 1911A1, by random draw, for a thousand dollars, was fooling themselves from the beginning.

After many years of luck of the draw Garands I never expected to receive anything collectible or rare. Of course CMP sends everything collectible to the Auction. As with CMP rifles or pistols it luck of the draw. Some get a gem and others not so much. If you followed the threads over on the cmp forum we saw this. All I was saying is if you want a shooter go for it but I personally would not do it again if I was allowed.

 

[JDeere]

When were these re-arsenaled? Pre or post-M9 adoption?

Or done more recently?

Back in the late 70's early 80s at places like Anniston. Not all but most are stamped with armory initials and date. They were packed away and stored. CMP received these in the original crates and barrels. I'm sure CMP might have had to replace a part here and there but they did not put these pistols together from parts...

 

[plodder]

I got the phone call (yes, a real live person) from CMP last week. I had put my name in on about day 1 of the original release of 1911s a year (or 2 or 3??) ago and since I had heard nothing since I forgot all about it. The nice lady on the phone was patient with me as she reminded me about the fact that I had put in all the paperwork. I was given the choice of either Rack, Field or Service grade & selected Service.

If the 1911 is in as good of shape as the Garands I have acquired from CMP were, I won't be disappointed. I have other 1911s for various purposes (competition, CC, Barbecues) but I don't have one with "character". I've spent more & got less. Will post pics of unboxing when I receive it in a day or 2 unless I am totally embarrassed or ashamed of myself.

 

[plodder]

Go here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cmp-1911-report.882094/
for my "unboxing" report on a recently received Service Grade CMP 1911.

 

[gralewaj]

here's mine... I could not be happier. 1918 Colt 1911 frame, Ithaca slide. ApacheTodd has no idea what he's talking about. CMP isn't rebuilding pistols from parts. They are distributing surplus arms that were in government storage. If the pistol needed to be repaired, CMP repaired it and it went out the door.

 

[wiscoaster]

....ApacheTodd has no idea what he's talking about. ...

I think maybe you're making too much of @ApacheCoTodd making a point about "re-arsenalling". Nice guns, BTW. Thanks for the pics.

 

[12Bravo20]

Well you have to remember that the last GI 1911's were made in 1945 and were in service until the early 1990's. Yes all of them had been sent back for arsenal refurbish at least once during that time. Yes I carried one during Desert Storm and was also issued one when I first get to Germany in Jan 1992. We didn't get the Beretta M9s until either late 92/early 93. It was rare to see any 1911 that had all the original parts still when we turned the last of our unit's 1911s in. I had to help the all the company arms rooms in my battalion turn them in.

 

[Mullo98]

Imo, the cmp 1911s are for collectors and 1911 fans. You could get a new springfield field or something sure, but not one issued during a war and/or used by a service member. I don't understand the higher price ones that could be mis matched; but that's not a big deal for the cheaper ones. I probably won't rush out and get one, but if I did have the extra money......

 

[Homerboy]

The CMP did not build these guns. They received them from the Army and inspected them before selling them, replacing any parts that needed to be replaced.

But since the majority of these guns (probably all) were overhauled before being put into storage, (mine was done at Anniston in July, 1976), I highly doubt many parts needed to be replaced. Whatever parts needed replacing would have been done at Anniston.

The few hundred rounds I have shot through mine have functioned flawlessly and hit their target. And these were all my own reloads.

 

[Nature Boy]

There's been a lot of questions on here regarding the value of these and how "luck of the draw" has played into "perceived vs. received"

It prompted me to go to the CMP forum take a look at what people are getting. I have to say, some of the field grade variety have looked pretty good, and some looked down right awful

If I was going to pony up for one of these (and I've been thinking about it) I don't think I'd take the risk that I'd end up with one like I saw on the CMP forum, sandblasted to an inch of its life and pitted to hell and back. I'd be pissed if I got one like that.

So, that got me looking at the auction side. On the lower end, some nice (for GI issue) examples were gaveled at ~$1,500. The high end went for $7,000.

Is an extra few hundred worth the piece of mind from knowing what you're getting? I haven't decided for myself on that yet.

Out of curiosity, perhaps one of our experts could educate me on what made this one worth $7K?

https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=6327&n=Colt-1911A1-SN-712170

 

[12Bravo20]

If I was going to pony up for one of these (and I've been thinking about it) I don't think I'd take the risk that I'd end up with one like I saw on the CMP forum, sandblasted to an inch of its life and pitted to hell and back. I'd be pissed if I got one like that.


Out of curiosity, perhaps one of our experts could educate me on what made this one worth $7K?

https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=6327&n=Colt-1911A1-SN-712170

I can tell you the 1911A! that I carried during Desert Storm was pretty rough looking and if it wasn't sand blasted when I was issued it, it sure was by the time I left Iraq.


Now for your question on what makes a GI 1911 worth $7K. It all depends on who the original manufacturer was and how original the pistol is. And if you think that $7K is high, you sure don't want to see what a 1911 made by the Singer Sewing Machine company in original condition goes for then. IIRC, Singer only made around 500 1911's Those go for 5 figures easily,

 

[12Bravo20]

Okay I was wrong. A Singer Sewing Machine 1911 went for $414,000 at auction in December 2017. I was correct on the number made of 500 pistols.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi.../singer-sewing-machine-company-45-pistol-gun/

Yes that $414,000 is an exception.

Here is one that was listed by Rock Island Auction Company in December 2010 with an estimated value of $55,000 - $95,000

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/51/1954/singer-1911a1-pistol-price-80500


As you can see the value depends on how original the pistol is along with who made it.

 

[Nature Boy]

Now for your question on what makes a GI 1911 worth $7K.

Not what makes a 1911 worth high dollars, I get that, but what makes that specific one in the link I posted worth $7k